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marmaduke
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16-03-2019, 01:02 PM
131

Re: Churchill NZ under lockdown!

Look at all the child sex grooming in Yorkshire for years , the police were told many times but as soon as you mention Muslim then it’s a huge cover up and swept under carpet hence the mess the world is in today but one day the pin will be pulled and all hell will be let loose as the debate has never been allowed to be had proper
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16-03-2019, 01:05 PM
132

Re: Churchill NZ under lockdown!

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
I find that hard to answer fender, personally I wouldn't want to stand in front of some of them and denounce them without a lot of back up, they aren't nice people will respond negatively at the time, they creep back when you feel safe and attack you or your family then. I know also when our local mosque heard of three men they suspected of being dangerous and the Imam went to the police. Nothing was done, eventually they went to a camp abroad to learn to fight for ISIS. So for us that pretty much proved their guilt but police still did nothing when they returned several times to UK.

Why would anyone put themselves forward if the police won't act ?
I know where you're coming from, but I still have my reservations.
For example, they were pretty quick to have a mass demonstration over a cartoon, but rarely anything with regard to hate preachers and the like. Those that incite violence, give them a bad name and so on.
I think this is why they are not trusted and often tarred with the same brush.
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16-03-2019, 01:22 PM
133

Re: Churchill NZ under lockdown!

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
So do we all have to reject what this man did as he claims to do it in our names or do we assume right minded people understand he doesn't represent us at all ? Most Muslims don't see the violence as being part of their religion, they assume I think we all realise they aren't to blame. But many have spoken out you just don't hear them as they don't get mass coverage like people like choudray do. At one point I remember choudray on many tv shows and the Muslims local to me almost in tears they couldn't get to say anything on the same platforms to condemn him, it was almost like the media wanted to blame them all.
Julie I never suggested that we reject what he did, read my post again!
What I am asking for is not just a few local Imams, removing violent members, I am suggesting that all Imams reject the violent action of all Muslims,including some of their own punishments...... like killing females who commit adultery ( men who do that run away , so they then rape his sisters instead!).
You can't consider yourself peace loving, yet kill people who make a mistake.
I am sure you know a lot of nice Muslims, but many in Britain discreetly marry underage girls..... even though it is against the law of our country! If they live in another country they must abide by the laws of that country, or go back to their own countries where underage marriage is allowed!
Any religion that agrees with violent punishments for mistakes is never likely to be accepted in Britain.... or at least not until there are so many of them that they will out vote the indigenous British!
The whole of the peace loving Islam should make a worldwide declaration that no violence is acceptable & any who think it is will be rejected!

The man who killed so many in Manchester was worshipping at a Mosque in Didsbury ( about 20 miles from my home). The Imam denied it, and when it was proved, said he had no idea! He sounds about as reliable & the Catholic priests who covered up the child abuse!
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16-03-2019, 01:36 PM
134

Re: Churchill NZ under lockdown!

The problem with Muslim clerics and Imams is anyone can be one, in other religions there are colleges to train them, or accepted pathways into being a preacher, but an Imam can pretty much stand up in their own living room and pronounce themselves an Imam, no training at all. So getting any number of them together to do anything is pretty difficult. I'm not even sure anyone has any idea how many there are as the ones in mosques are just the ones with the bigger followings.

Personally I'd like to see all Imams paid for by Saudi removed and the mosques given over to more decent Muslims who do have a peaceful message and are more open to the world.

We have mixed services where I attend every few weeks most religions stand together and preach, it's marvelously uplifting that Jewish people stand with Muslims and everyone else and are preaching the same lessons.

People speak as if Muslims are alien beings so different to the rest of us that isn't my experience of them at all. I'd like to see all of them more involved in our country it's the only way we will dispel the fear and stop the right wing demonising them.
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16-03-2019, 01:45 PM
135

Re: Churchill NZ under lockdown!

Originally Posted by gumbud ->
Oeer !! ooeer!! - wanna prove it or just boasting?
Just keep up what I have to say on the subject, check it out, and asking about what you don't understand.

Fifty plus years ago and prior to my going up to university I was given some good advice by my uncle. He advised me to study a subject poles apart from the subject that I was reading, physics. He said that doing so would result in light relief from what we both knew was going to be an intense time in study.

I decided on comparative religion, in part because of my experiences as a Jew in a predominantly Methodist community but also because I was well on the way to becoming a Humanist.

For over fifty years I've had the two major religions and the one major cult as an area of academic study.

So maybe give me the benefit of the doubt that when it comes to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam "I ain't just whistling Dixie".
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16-03-2019, 01:50 PM
136

Re: Churchill NZ under lockdown!

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
The problem with Muslim clerics and Imams is anyone can be one, in other religions there are colleges to train them, or accepted pathways into being a preacher, but an Imam can pretty much stand up in their own living room and pronounce themselves an Imam, no training at all. So getting any number of them together to do anything is pretty difficult. I'm not even sure anyone has any idea how many there are as the ones in mosques are just the ones with the bigger followings.

Personally I'd like to see all Imams paid for by Saudi removed and the mosques given over to more decent Muslims who do have a peaceful message and are more open to the world.

We have mixed services where I attend every few weeks most religions stand together and preach, it's marvelously uplifting that Jewish people stand with Muslims and everyone else and are preaching the same lessons.

People speak as if Muslims are alien beings so different to the rest of us that isn't my experience of them at all. I'd like to see all of them more involved in our country it's the only way we will dispel the fear and stop the right wing demonising them.

Most Muslim people are certainly not alien and like the Russians during the USSR period "will just pass the salt if you ask for it" (Peter Ustinov quote) --- but there's a but.

But Islam is incompatible with democracy as we know it.
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16-03-2019, 01:58 PM
137

Re: Churchill NZ under lockdown!

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
The problem with Muslim clerics and Imams is anyone can be one, in other religions there are colleges to train them, or accepted pathways into being a preacher, but an Imam can pretty much stand up in their own living room and pronounce themselves an Imam, no training at all. So getting any number of them together to do anything is pretty difficult. I'm not even sure anyone has any idea how many there are as the ones in mosques are just the ones with the bigger followings.

Personally I'd like to see all Imams paid for by Saudi removed and the mosques given over to more decent Muslims who do have a peaceful message and are more open to the world.

We have mixed services where I attend every few weeks most religions stand together and preach, it's marvelously uplifting that Jewish people stand with Muslims and everyone else and are preaching the same lessons.

People speak as if Muslims are alien beings so different to the rest of us that isn't my experience of them at all. I'd like to see all of them more involved in our country it's the only way we will dispel the fear and stop the right wing demonising them.
We have had this discussion before and Islam must change the way it is organized in order to root out extremists. They need a central leadership that provides guidance.
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16-03-2019, 02:12 PM
138

Re: Churchill NZ under lockdown!

Islam is a religion it's as compatible with democracy as any other religion. I don't understand why anyone expects it to be democratic at all.
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16-03-2019, 02:15 PM
139

Re: Churchill NZ under lockdown!

What seems to being said here is that when a muslim kills a load of innocent people, it's our fault for not understanding them - when a non-muslim kills a load of innocent muslims, it's our fault for not understanding them.
Julie1962
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16-03-2019, 02:15 PM
140

Re: Churchill NZ under lockdown!

Originally Posted by AnnieS ->
We have had this discussion before and Islam must change the way it is organized in order to root out extremists. They need a central leadership that provides guidance.
I agree but I can't see how that can possibly work as there are as many different ways within Islam as there are countries in the world possibly even more thinking about it. A Muslim from Poland is very different to one from Sri Lanka and they are very different to one from Pakistan or Saudi or Iran. All would need to agree and I can't see that happening any time soon.
 
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