Re: Boris is bluffing.

Yes, that is a major difference between the netherlands and england. We are used to being a small player, so we rely on our diplomatic and negotiating skills. Also, we always form alliances with other (small) countries. The first being the benelux (belgium, netherlands, luxemburg), the other the EGKS (forerunner of the EEC).
The EU is fit to measure for us. We let big boys like germany and france have the satisfaction of the idea they are the boss. To achieve our goals we bond with another big player, like the UK. Now you are leaving we form other alliances, like the hanse alliance.
The UK trips on the illusion of freedom, but in imagining gaining freedom (for those who can afford it) you lose much benefits for the less well of and the country as a whole..

Re: Boris is bluffing.

Hi

Solasch, please do not confuse a wish to be independent with stupidity.

I have no wish at all for the UK to be a World Player, I have no wish for the UK to "Punch above it's weight".

Those days have gone and we simply cannot afford Vanity Projects.

I am no longer prepared to subsidise French farmers, nor German Defense spending.

Neither am I willing to follow the USA blindly into wars which are nothing to do with us.

We have problems here which are affecting the quality of life of ordinary working people.

We need to leave the EU, draw our horns in, reduce our overseas aid budget and improve our own quality of life.

We can drop from the 6th largest economy in the World to the 10th largest, but still have have a better quality of life by spending our money differently.

The EU is not contributing to the cost of our Aircraft Carriers to protect Trade Routes, we are being drawn into a war with Iran.

Nothing to do with us at all, we are not here to protect Israel.

We do not need our aircraft carriers to protect the Falklands or our other interests abroad.

Time has moved on, we have low cost missiles which are much more effective in doing that.

We are not here to subsidise an EU Army.

Germany has an annual surplus, we borrow to fund our Armed Forces.

The German Luftwaffe cannot even fight at night or in bad weather, they cannot target effectively.

The EU has nothing like GCHQ, we should charge for it, not give it away free.

Time to leave and go our own way.

Spend our money on ourselves.

I am different to some on here, I am not a Little Englander, I have no wish to be a World Player, I know leaving will hurt for a while.

it is however worth it.

My Vote counts for sod all in the EU Elections, I cannot influence the EU.

My Vote does however count here.

Unlike others, I bear the EU no bad will, good luck to them.

It is simply not for me.

I also take the greatest exception to the insults that Leavers are Racists.

They are not.

Farage has a foreign wife, my lodgers are Polish and so are my Pretendies.

I also put up NHS Staff arriving from abroad.

These type of insults are primarily from UK born and bred Remainers.

The holier than thou Brigade who have never been the only native English Speaker in the house.

Neither am I Islamophobic.

Another common accusation against Leavers.

My Nurse is a Muslim, she does not wear a Headscarf.

I have employed Muslim Enforcement Officers, absolutely brilliant at their jobs.

The Enemy is fanatical Muslims, for which I and my Muslim Enforcement Officers had no time for at all.

I am a complete arse when it comes to dealing with them, as were my Muslim Enforcement Officers, particularly the female ones.

I have no time at all for Corbyn and Remainer Snowflakes.

They can call me all the names under the sun and so what?

Out we go.

I would prefer it to be on Good Terms and with a Deal which benefits us all.

If that is not possible, we must still Leave.

Re: Boris is bluffing.

Perhaps because he is good , just because you don"t like him doesn"t mean to say others don"t either .I think he is good has a bit of maverik about him much like trump , that is what need , a good old shakeup from the gloomy lot we have at the moment

Re: Boris is bluffing.

It doesn't matter who is elected as PM so long as it is someone totally dedicated to pulling the UK out of the EU immediately. That's the only thing that matters now. Everything else can wait.

Fannying about worrying about how good or bad the candidate would be as PM is a nonsense. Like deliberating whether to go to the supermarket or not tomorrow when your house is currently burning down. The priority is to get out of the house, nothing else matters at that point.

We need a government that is totally and wholly committed to getting us out of the UK, ideally by NO DEAL as that is the only way it can ever truly happen. I'm hugely sceptical as to whether there exists anyone in government willing to do this.

I rather believe that government needs to be completely removed and replaced and our entirepolitical system changed.

The corrupt elitists will never allow us to Leave and the existing government EU stooges and the sham 2 party political system simply ensure that they remain in control.

Re: Boris is bluffing.

Swim, I do not confuse the two for being the same. The two of us just have a different qualification of the same event.
However, I respect your wish for independence or sovereignty, or how else you call it. Over the years (I read some of your old posts on this forum) you consistently used the same arguments to reach the same conclusions.
As you have stated many times, you are not or hardly at all disadvantaged by brexit. You are the exception, in fact, part of an elite. That is what I stated in my previous post.
Those making the decisions about brexit need, in my opinion, take into account the effects for the average man, average worker. Not only what the economically safe elite wants and can afford.

Re: Boris is bluffing.

Once we get out of the EU we can then really start to get back to how it should have been in the first place, just trading without politicians trying to run everything.

Once out nothing to stop us reducing VAT for this stupidly high EU level back down to 17.5% or even 15%. That would encourage spending , firms charging less and selling more just for starters.

The money we contribute into the EU would go into our pockets instead not only to lessen the national debt but also things like the NHS to name but one.

Italy is in crisis financially- Germany is not much better let alone Greece to name but 3.

we have a saying "never put all your eggs in one basket" something the EU beurocrats don't understand

Re: Boris is bluffing.

Spot on !

Re: Boris is bluffing.

It seems you are a little confused Solasch! Our decision to leave the EU was made by average men & average workers, who live in the UK. I think we understand what kind of life we want, much better that somebody who has never lived here! Democracy rules here & I hope it always will

Re: Boris is bluffing.

Just another load of unresearched drivel

According to EU law, EU Member States are required to levy a standard VAT rate of at least 15 percent and a reduced rate of at least 5 percent.

So in effect the UK can already reduce it's VAT rate to 15%. Nothing to do with the EU.

Re: Boris is bluffing.

I think what realspeed means is that we can remove the EU (say) 5% VAT amount that we need to pay them and not suffer any loss in revenues.

The other point he is making is that the EU determine what goods/services VAT must be applied (such as heating) so when we leave would could remove VAT completely for pensioners heating their homes.