02-12-2020, 01:32 PM
11
Re: Transitioning at 16 too young?
Originally Posted by Lion Queen
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sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I mean should they perform surgery on someone so young. Some may have mental health problems, but like you say some may just need counselling. I say controversial because it is often a public debate. People have a right to their own thoughts on the subject I suppose, just because people have different opinions on something, who is to say who is right or wrong. My opinion is if we are born with a certain piece of anatomy that determines between female and male, however in some cases some people are born with both, in that case I am totally understanding that they would have to choose which sex they want to live their life. If I had a child who wanted to change gender I would want to make sure my child had all the help there is to offer eg counselling and/or even psychiatry. Of course if the outcome is they still wanted to change their sex then I would support them wholeheartedly.
When I see so many regretting their decision that rings alarm bells to me. I may be wrong in my thinking but this is how I see it.
02-12-2020, 08:52 PM
12
Re: Transitioning at 16 too young?
Originally Posted by The Artful Todger
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Does have the benefit of taking the distinctly odd out of the gene pool before procreation takes place. I don't "do" diversity.
02-12-2020, 10:01 PM
13
Re: Transitioning at 16 too young?
Originally Posted by keezoy
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Have no idea what the situation is in the UK. But here cross gender issues are treated very seriously. In the past many young people have been subjected to severe judgement by older generations over this. They have been forced to live how everybody else wants and expects them to be. THeir genuine feelings have been trivialised and even ridiculed by an older generation who's job it was to care for them. They are called "snowflakes" and "pansies" by people who have less than zero knowledge about these kids or have nothing to base their opinions on other than their own prejudices. Instead of listening, empathising and making them feel safe, they cop the "Oh grow up..we never went on with that rot in my day..". The result?..in too many cases self harm at best or suicide at worst. Some kids know they are in the wrong body very early in their life. It is a very real condition. It is like homosexuality. It is not a "disease" that needs to be corrected. It is an orientation that occurs for want of a better word... naturally. MOst of us are retired. We are old. We have created the word that these kids have to live in. And a lot of it is sh*t. They will be around a lot longer than we are. They should be able to live the life they want. We should never try to hold back the hands of time. Because they will tear our arms out.
02-12-2020, 10:24 PM
15
Re: Transitioning at 16 too young?
Well the definitive age for something like cosmetic surgery is 16 but some surgeons won't agree until a child is 18. So not sure why this would be different. It's about development of mind and body. Neither is fully formed that early IMO. I think the decision should be at 21 tbh.02-12-2020, 10:33 PM
16
Re: Transitioning at 16 too young?
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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It used to be treated as a mental illness here until recently - gender dysphoria. It was classed alongside other similar conditions such as body dysmorphia etc. If it is not a mental illness then why the risk of suicide? We shouldn't be in a rush to mutate young people before their brains have fully developed. There is no going back with such treatment. It's become a bit of a fashion in the UK so impossible to tell who is really in need of treatment and who has been nurtured to think they need it. The cacophony of gender politics means that the voices of the rare conditions that may really need such treatment for medical reasons are silenced.
Suicide does not equal mental illness. Relatively few people with a properly diagnosed chronic mental illness, such as schizophrenia or other psychoses commit suicide. Most people who take their own lives are either in an acute state of psychosis - often drug induced or suffering from severe depression, alienation, loneliness, poverty or other forms of social rejection or marginalisation. Nobody has to listen tpo the cacophany . Social media has created cacophanies about everything. MOst of it garbage. Who you do listen to is each person in turn who wants to be heard. This starts in the family. A caring and intelligent family will give the individual who has these issues a solid foundation to deal with them properly and reject shallow trends on social media or from narrow minded or conservative religious dictators. NOt every family is intelligent and caring you may ask?..well why blame the kid!?. Give them access to somebody else who will take them seriously.
02-12-2020, 11:19 PM
17
Re: Transitioning at 16 too young?
Suicidal ideation is treated as a symptom of mental illness in the UK. If you are suspected as planning or at risk of taking your life you will be sectioned here. Gender dysphoria used to be treated as mental illness here. I don't think that is still the case but it was not too long ago that it was. The Tavistock where this high profile case appears to have originated, is a mental health unit.Puberty is a time when the child is developing independence from the family unit and forming their own identity. They ARE influenced by social media and peers. It IS trendy to be LGBT among that peer group these days.
Puberty blockers should not be used willy nilly for every child that has identity issues. It should only be used for real physical conditions where it's required. Reassignment should be for adults only. Once the brain is developed. Look at this poor child in the news. Regrets going through with it. I agree with reassignment but not for kids.
03-12-2020, 12:08 AM
18
Re: Transitioning at 16 too young?
OK I'll take your word for what happens in the UK. Suicidal ideation is not necessarily treated as a mental illness here and people aren't automatically scheduled because they feel suicidal. I f they indicate an intent to take their life..that is a clear statement that they are going to do it. Then they can be scheduled. But we are talking about trans gender issues here yeah?. My only point is that there is a much less chance that kids will fell so hopeless that they will talk about..or commit suicide..if they are given the right support from the family out. I made my point. To identify suicidal ideation as simply a mental illness totally ignores outside factors and that it sometimes is a totally understandable reaction to very real threats to the self. Of course you can disagree. That's what we're here for
What is a "kid"?..We allow kids to have sex at 16. We allow them to get a learner driver permit. In some places we allow them to leave home, work and even at one or two years older, drink and vote (here leastways) and join the police force, volunteer fire brigade or the armed forces. In some states in the US they can be given the death penalty under 18. (NOt sure about that but I'm betting it's the case) Also once again..Has anybody bothered to google Georgie Stone? Here's a start. Have a read. She is an awesome young person. Sure she is pretty and intelligent and talented and comes from an upper middle class background. That may be part of the reason she gets the press but she is also a great advocate for young people like her. Just for some balance. That's all
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgie_Stone
03-12-2020, 01:33 AM
19
Re: Transitioning at 16 too young?
I don't know if 16 is too young. the only comment I would make is that if decisions are not made early then characteristics of the birth gender tend to take place at puberty.If a person genuinely thinks they are the wrong gender then perhaps this is the time to decide otherwise the poor sod ends up looking like a bloke in a dress or a woman with a beard - and suffer the ridicule that entails.
What ever, it must be an awful thing to grow up believing you have the wrong body.
I noticed an article in the news yesterday about a (famous) person (I had never heard of) who has decided she is a he but the photo of him just looked like a girl in masculine clothes (Ellen/Elliot Page I think?). Perhaps I/we need to think in terms of a third gender. Sad for them in my opinion.
03-12-2020, 09:42 AM
20
Re: Transitioning at 16 too young?
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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It used to be treated as a mental illness here until recently - gender dysphoria. It was classed alongside other similar conditions such as body dysmorphia etc. If it is not a mental illness then why the risk of suicide? We shouldn't be in a rush to mutate young people before their brains have fully developed. There is no going back with such treatment. It's become a bit of a fashion in the UK so impossible to tell who is really in need of treatment and who has been nurtured to think they need it. The cacophony of gender politics means that the voices of the rare conditions that may really need such treatment for medical reasons are silenced.
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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Well the definitive age for something like cosmetic surgery is 16 but some surgeons won't agree until a child is 18. So not sure why this would be different. It's about development of mind and body. Neither is fully formed that early IMO. I think the decision should be at 21 tbh.
Originally Posted by AnnieS
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Suicidal ideation is treated as a symptom of mental illness in the UK. If you are suspected as planning or at risk of taking your life you will be sectioned here. Gender dysphoria used to be treated as mental illness here. I don't think that is still the case but it was not too long ago that it was. The Tavistock where this high profile case appears to have originated, is a mental health unit. Puberty is a time when the child is developing independence from the family unit and forming their own identity. They ARE influenced by social media and peers. It IS trendy to be LGBT among that peer group these days.
Puberty blockers should not be used willy nilly for every child that has identity issues. It should only be used for real physical conditions where it's required. Reassignment should be for adults only. Once the brain is developed. Look at this poor child in the news. Regrets going through with it. I agree with reassignment but not for kids.
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