Re: Not going too well for Brexit!!!

you're makin it all up again aren't ya muddy - stopped takin the tranx have we??

Re: Not going too well for Brexit!!!

Thanks for that link Dex as you say interesting....

Re: Not going too well for Brexit!!!

Good. There are many different and interesting considerations outlined in that discussion.

One of particular interest is that if another referendum is held, there will be quite a few more snowflakes who would now be qualified to vote and, as we are all aware, those people seem to be very much in favour of remaining in the EU dictatorship.

Then, of course, if this second referendum resulted in another majority vote to leave, would there be another referendum, and another and another, until we 'get it right', as happened in Ireland and Denmark?

I am still convinced that leaving the EU completely and with no deal and no strings attached is the best thing to do.

If, however, we should have another referendum which resulted in a majority remain vote, then that would be that (unless we demand another: 'best of three'!) In those circumstances, I should just accept that the deed has been done and I should not join any protest groups and parade around the streets.

My opinions would not have changed but, in accepting the new vote, my view would be that those who brought it about would eventually realise their mistake and be obliged to live with it!

Re: Not going too well for Brexit!!!

Personally,to me,the EU [which I had NO argument with/about] has proved to be the 'school bully',in it's facile,peurile attempts at intimidation and it's ''We're bigger than you,so you'll do it OUR way,or no way'' attitude to the United Kingdom's decision to leave. If the EU,it's representatives, it's monitors, it's various bullsh1tting politicians were ever to be struck down with a decency virus, that caused them to become worthy of the posts they hold in the name of over half a billion people, most of whom don't give a flying f8ck either way regarding our withdrawal, this whole thing would be quietly and covertly sorted out, whilst retaining honour all round.
NUTS to 'the plan'-just get out, brush yourselves down,stand tall, face front.
I blame Ted Heath. Research the truth regarding 'secret document FCO 30/1048'...which was kept fully secret for 30 years.

Sod all this...this thread is causing ill-feeling and solving nothing.
You people are supposed to be friends on here.
Grown-ups,trading insults,snide comments and backstabs.
Oh,HOW very proud of you your old teachers would be.
Nah...no wonder we look so bloody stupid & therefore beatable to the EU dictators.
Ce sera' sera'...

Right-Espresso time...from the EU,btw. [ciao]

Re: Not going too well for Brexit!!!

I've admired and simultaneously despaired about people such as you and your single minded determination of what is ultimately "right". This is no insult, so please don't take it as such. It's just that the concept of Godel's "Axiom of Incompleteness" makes utter sense to me. Assuming that you have no idea of what this is, in a nutshell it's that in order to resolve currently unprovable theories one has to create new basic axioms. The trouble is that these new axioms create new unprovable theories, so more axioms need to be created, which then create new unprovable theories, so more axioms need to be created, which then... ad infinitum

My conclusion is itself a paradox, in that the only fixed opinion one should ever have is that one shouldn't have fixed opinions.

As an example, Einstein's theory of relativity seems to fit and explain all (?) observable situations, and surplants Newton's now seemingly darned good "Laws" of motion. But, this would assume that we have found a fundamental "truth". But Godel's theorem implies that this isn't possible

As an aside, my old fella (Polish and utterly anti-Semitic) once explained to me how Einstein "must" be wrong, because he was a Jew. Ho hum

So, in light of all of this, I hope you can understand why I simply cannot take ultimate "sides" with any hard line views on here nor elsewhere, since it makes no sense to do so, even though my gut (and probably "nurtured") instinct may incline me to do so

Hence, the opening sentence to this post.

Re: Not going too well for Brexit!!!

Ah,but the Higher Order Modum argument shows Godel's Axiom to be, of itself,an incomplete and therefore paradoxical theorem,Dextrous63.

So,we're back to page one, with inconsistencies in arguments and theories on all sides. Ergo,whether we leave the EU or whether we have another referendum to 'enforce' our staying, there will always be discontent.

So,leave,re-set the priorities for re-joining,be refused entry, start this crap all over again. OR,ignore the 'in situ' referendum,stay-and suffer the subsequent chaos of general elections,re-prioritising our UK requirements and all the bullshine that will incur.
Ohhh,boy. Suddenly 'Life on Mars' seems a lot more likely...

Re: Not going too well for Brexit!!!

You're right! We shall probably always continue to argue with each other. After all, we have been doing that for over 50 years! I'm afraid I can't see it stopping now.

Re: Not going too well for Brexit!!!

Thing is,JBR; until this whole shebang became a political 'power',rather than a mutually-beneficial trading agreement between nations, it actually worked. The EEC had it's problems, yes...but being dictated to by the United States of Germany and its sycophantic,acolyte hangers-on,wasn't one of them!

Re: Not going too well for Brexit!!!

My cousin in law once worked in Brussels as a UK rep at the EU - wot he told me would make the hairs on the back of your neck not stand up once but do three summersaults and then stand up again - I cannot of course repeat them on here as that would be libelous but if you would care to send me a stamped address envelope with $50 enclosed I could release one or two?

Re: Not going too well for Brexit!!!

Hi

The Vote was to leave the EU, there are many different ways of doing that.

It was never specified to leave with no deal, an act of self harm which will have enormous financial consequences

Are we saying that we have got it right and Canada, Japan and South Korea have got it wrong?

They are completely outside the EU, but have signed Free Trade Deals.

So have another 40 Countries.

No Deal means leaving the lot, so all our Exports will be subject to WTO Tariffs until such time as we have negotiated new Trade Deals, these take years.

This is sheer stupidity.

It makes absolutely no sense for Nissan, Toyota, Honda and JLR to remain in the UK and have their profits seriously reduced.

They will move, it is a No Brainer for them.

It will not happen straight away, they have too much invested here, but when the current production runs end and new models are introduced, away they go.

This also affects the supply chain, which is far more jobs that just assembly.

My reasons for voting leave where Political, I have no intention of being part of a Political Bloc.

I did not however vote for Financial Stupidity.

A Canada style deal is fine by me, a No Deal is not.