Re: Military "draw down" in Iraq. Now what?

Over here lawyers get fat fees for arguing the principle of `reasonable force`

I will be 57 in October,Dick on one side is 62 and Pete on the other is 60 tomorrow.

We are past fisticuffs-we are no longer spring chickens so our first blow must be decisive-and if that kills so be it.

And as Dick says-"if they are dead they cannot argue"

Re: Military "draw down" in Iraq. Now what?

I am no spring chicken either OG - I am older than the three of you (63) and a female. I would be devastated if I hurt or killed anyone with a gun. I would rather they took my stuff. I honestly believe our crime figures and violent crime in particular would be even worse if we all had guns. The only thing I have are big black dogs, which I keep purely for pleasure, but I know they would do their best to help me if I was in danger.

Re: Military "draw down" in Iraq. Now what?

I`m not talking about guns-just `reasonable force`

If someone broke in what to do?

Say "excuse me old bean I would rather you left if it`s all the same to you"

Or hit them over the head with whatever came to hand?

Re: Military "draw down" in Iraq. Now what?

It would depend on the situation OG. If I thought I had a chance of getting the better of them and had a suitable implement plus the element of surprise, I would probably have a go, but if it was a case where they were far stronger than me and really determined then.... what could I do? The dogs would probably react faster than me anyway, and I would let them. They have proved this to me in the past. They really are my best deterrent, their senses are so much sharper than mine - they know what is going on before I do.

Re: Military "draw down" in Iraq. Now what?

Not if they're dead.

We have the reverse problem. Our criminals don't fear anyone.

I know we're discussed the "blue states vs. red states" idea here. Contrary to popular belief, it's half and half, not the big liberal push that our news agencies want you to believe. We have 48 of our 50 states that allow average citizens to carry firearms. Oh, you'll get the same packaged drek that "most people disapprove" of that policy.

If so, how did the politicians that voted that idea into law get there? It's because more that 51% of the votes put them there in office.

If you get a chance to listen to music from my country, find a song by Toby Keith called "Beer For My Horses."

When it comes to modern crime, it espouses the idea that we should put "a few more in the ground."

Even our comedian Ron White says that there ought to be an "express lane" to an execution.

Re: Military "draw down" in Iraq. Now what?

I'm sorry Tourist, I do not wish to continue with this topic - I have said my piece and you disturb me. This thread was originally on the millitary withdrawal from Iraq and I am distinctly unhappy with the way you have steered it. In my book violence does breed viiolence and thats all I am going to say to you about it.

Re: Military "draw down" in Iraq. Now what?

I see they have left a few thousand `observers` and ` trainers`. Not troops.
Now where have I heard that before?

Re: Military "draw down" in Iraq. Now what?

It's all the same thing. A question of mindset.

Do you want to live *hoping* a bully will leave you alone?

We lost 3,300 people here simply because a loose-nut decided to steal our lunch money.

Do we want these mental defectives to set the tone of our choices, our government and our future freedoms?

It was Benjamin Franklin that commented on the very topic:

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Franklin's Contributions to the Conference on February 17 (III) Fri, Feb 17, 1775

You'll notice that it is now Bin Laden who hides, not us.

Re: Military "draw down" in Iraq. Now what?

I will attempt to answer the points your post in the order which you have raised them.

a) I do not live “hoping” a bully will leave me alone. I am neither a bully, nor am I bullied. If I have to defend myself I will, but I will do everything I can before I resort to violence. - “There was never a good war or a bad peace“ - Benjamin Franklin.

b) If I understand you correctly you are referring to the Twin Towers atrocity and the appalling loss of life. The whole World was shocked by this - I believe even the Islamic World. I am lost when you refer to “loose nut decided to steal our lunch money” Do you mean New York is your lunch money?

c) No friends or alliances are made by insults like mental defectives, and playing the “bully boy” on the World stage. You should be above slinging insults. It is very childish and immature. We all know Americans have enough “muscle” to start and finish any job. What you in particular seem short on is diplomacy and insight. I was not aware that “mental defectives” were attempting to set the tone of your choices, government and future freedoms.

d) You quote your Statesman Benjamin Franklin and use that quote in isolation to aid your point. I consider that both GB and the USA have essential liberty - we don’t need to give it up in order to be safe. Because we share and attempt to get along with each other, we are expected to abide by certain rules aimed at facilitating this. I see nothing wrong with that - the intention and aim is for the collective benefit of the country. It is part of a democratic process, which can be amended and tailored to suit as appropriate. If the majority will not abide by the rules/laws, then the rules cannot be implemented. would you prefer a state of anarchy? If you want to talk about “essential freedoms” look back into history at slavery - slavery Worldwide. I believe your Benjamin Franklin was an abolitionist. Think about the old Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) and South Africa’s history - now that is/was what I call “essential freedom”. If the boot were on the other foot and you lived in another country ……….. Think also about attempts at genocide of races - look to your own history. We have freedom - stop spouting on about petty issues.

e) There are many appropriate quotes of Benjamin Franklin’s that you could choose to assist in a debate :-
- All wars are follies very expensive and very mischievous ones.
- A man wrapped up in himself makes a very small bundle.
- Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
- Tell me and I forget, teach me and I remember, involve me and I learn.
- Whatever is begun in anger ends in shame.
- There was never a good war, or a bad peace.

Re: Military "draw down" in Iraq. Now what?

Nice post.