13-08-2020, 07:20 PM
11
Re: Why is ERG looking for a deal??
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
->
What makes you think a good deal is in the offing Bread, when thewhole history of our relationship with EU has been one of
slow absorption by EU of anything that was worth anything to UK?
With Uk political assistance l might add!!
So l am suspicious of anything regarding a so called deal with EU?
I think it is unneccassary to have national "deal" at all, just let the
businesses involved agree terms individually on an ad--hoc basis
over time, why should the state have any say at all!!
So l agree a good deal is better than a no deal, but who decides if
it is good or bad? Our politicians dont have a good record in
negotiations in the recent past do they?
Donkeyman! 🤔🤔
WTO does not work like that.
Deals have to be done at national level and registered with the WTO.
13-08-2020, 07:22 PM
12
Re: Why is ERG looking for a deal??
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
->
HiThe ERG is a hardcore Brexit Group.
IDS is one one those who pushed through the Withdrawal Agreement signed by Boris.
He voted against Parliament having more time to scrutinise it.
This is documented in Hansard.
He now wants it rewritten, which is not going to happen.
There is no £39Billion, a lot of it has already been paid.
David Frost, our chief negotiator, has recently said that we will only get around 60% of the Oven ready Deal Boris claimed he had.
IS the ERG really a hardcore brexit group??
If so why are they now trying to force a good deal by withholding
alledged monies owed to eu??
Surely they should be happy with a no deal scenario??
What am l missing here?
Donkeyman! 👍🤔🤔👍
13-08-2020, 07:27 PM
13
Re: Why is ERG looking for a deal??
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
->
HiWTO does not work like that.
Deals have to be done at national level and registered with the WTO.
Arent normal legal arrangements good enough?
If you have a legal contract it should be good enough?
Donkeyman! 🤔🤔
13-08-2020, 08:17 PM
14
Re: Why is ERG looking for a deal??
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
->
Why?Arent normal legal arrangements good enough?
If you have a legal contract it should be good enough?
Donkeyman! 🤔🤔
Tariffs and Quotas, like Taxes, are set by Governments.
It would be chaos otherwise.
14-08-2020, 09:43 AM
15
Re: Why is ERG looking for a deal??
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
->
What makes you think a good deal is in the offing Bread, when thewhole history of our relationship with EU has been one of
slow absorption by EU of anything that was worth anything to UK?
With Uk political assistance l might add!!
So l am suspicious of anything regarding a so called deal with EU?
I think it is unneccassary to have national "deal" at all, just let the
businesses involved agree terms individually on an ad--hoc basis
over time, why should the state have any say at all!!
So l agree a good deal is better than a no deal, but who decides if
it is good or bad? Our politicians dont have a good record in
negotiations in the recent past do they?
Donkeyman! 🤔🤔
It's no wonder we are suspicious, DM, the past 4 years have seen betrayal of the public vote over and over again, the civil service, the media, House of Lords, Barrack Obama, Blair, Joanna Cherry, Kier Starmer, Nicola Sturgeon, the Labour Party, Lib Dems (and on and on) deliberately go against their public will.
This is why I like David Frosts negotiating position, in that we have a simple tariff and quota free arrangement with the EU, cooperation on intelligence, security and defence and that's about it. We reclaim our territorial waters, no longer have anything to do with the ECJ, the common market or single market rules and trade with the world on our own terms.
This is where the ERG are coming from too - and supporting David Frost because he knows (as does Boris) if they put one foot wrong on this or even dare to try, the ERG, Brexit Party and the majority in this country will tear them apart. The Conservatives will never win another election and Boris' premiership will come to an abrupt end.
So, the ERG are supporting David Frost, he is doing a great job so far and if the 20+ government MP's in the ERG are backing him by supporting the 39 billion being pulled from the deal then all the better. This means its serious.
The ERG wouldn't be saying this unless the UK and the EU are in a good position to sign up to a deal that is good for the UK and the EU, and takes back control the way the UK decided to in 2016.
14-08-2020, 09:47 AM
16
Re: Why is ERG looking for a deal??
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
->
Thats what l am questioning Swimmy!IS the ERG really a hardcore brexit group??
If so why are they now trying to force a good deal by withholding
alledged monies owed to eu??
Surely they should be happy with a no deal scenario??
What am l missing here?
Donkeyman! 👍🤔🤔👍
If you remember it was the ERG (amongst others) with Steve Baker demanding that the backstop was removed from the WA, which, even to them was deemed impossible to do.
But Boris managed it, so they signed up to the WA where we would negotiate a Canada style FTA with the EU and if not, leave without a deal. The most "gammon" of them all, Marc Francois also vote it through, who now leads the ERG.
Seems reasonable to me.
14-08-2020, 01:21 PM
17
Re: Why is ERG looking for a deal??
Originally Posted by Bread
->
I don't know what you mean regarding the ERG as a hardcore Brexit group - they are formed from centre right Conservative MPs who voted through the Withdrawal Bill.If you remember it was the ERG (amongst others) with Steve Baker demanding that the backstop was removed from the WA, which, even to them was deemed impossible to do.
But Boris managed it, so they signed up to the WA where we would negotiate a Canada style FTA with the EU and if not, leave without a deal. The most "gammon" of them all, Marc Francois also vote it through, who now leads the ERG.
Seems reasonable to me.
The EU demanded equivalent alternatives to replace the backstop with. Boris took a previous version of withdrawal deal, which had been refused by theresa may, and sold that as a victory. As a result you have a border in the irish sea, and the EU has the WA they wanted all along.
It's only now, that the erg and others started to read, and are not happy with what they've been forced to do by IDS and boris.
14-08-2020, 01:41 PM
18
Re: Why is ERG looking for a deal??
Originally Posted by Bread
->
But Boris managed it, so they signed up to the WA where we would negotiate a Canada style FTA with the EU and if not, leave without a deal. The most "gammon" of them all, Marc Francois also vote it through, who now leads the ERG.Seems reasonable to me.
14-08-2020, 03:01 PM
19
Re: Why is ERG looking for a deal??
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
->
HiTariffs and Quotas, like Taxes, are set by Governments.
It would be chaos otherwise.
They are not a government are they?
I thought their " tariff" was just to cover AWTO administrative
costs? Not to adjust the inequalities of the economic system??
Donkeyman! 🤔🤔🤔
14-08-2020, 03:32 PM
20
Re: Why is ERG looking for a deal??
Originally Posted by Bread
->
I don't know what you mean regarding the ERG as a hardcore Brexit group - they are formed from centre right Conservative MPs who voted through the Withdrawal Bill.If you remember it was the ERG (amongst others) with Steve Baker demanding that the backstop was removed from the WA, which, even to them was deemed impossible to do.
But Boris managed it, so they signed up to the WA where we would negotiate a Canada style FTA with the EU and if not, leave without a deal. The most "gammon" of them all, Marc Francois also vote it through, who now leads the ERG.
Seems reasonable to me.
Where he described them as such !
However, from your post above it seems you have answered my
Op question when you describe them as centre right conservatives?
They WERE only pretending to be more right wing order to garner
more farage voters!
Once this was done via the general elecion they then reverted to
their normal centre right pesona , whereas Borisnis now stuck with
his GET BREXIT DONE, DEAL OR NO DEAL ptomises, which large
numbers of back bench tories have ALLWAYS been uncomfortable
with,( witness HOC mayhem in the May era!)
Hence my question, will Boris be dumped beforeXmas??
Donkeyman! 🤔🤔
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