Re: Scotland and the EU
Originally Posted by
weedeek
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In response to the usual "hypocrisy" accusations regarding support for an independent Scotland in the EU, I'm donning my armour-plated plaid and offering up this-
The UK and EU are two different bodies, with different histories, and different functions. Scotland’s relationship with both is entirely different.
The UK is a political entity, composed of four home nations.The EU is a large trading bloc, enabling ease of movement for work, trade, etc., as well as uniting former enemies in a common purpose of mutual benefit.
Why many in Scotland want to regain independence is down to a number of reasons, one of the main ones being the degree of democratic deficit in the UK. Comparing the EU and UK with regards to that, those against claim Scotland would have very little say in the EU if they were independently members, ignoring the fact that at present, they have NO influence, for instance Scotland voted against leaving the EU but have no choice in the matter. Same goes for claims about Sterling, etc.
This basically means that independence from the UK enables Scotland, for good or for bad, to be free to run its own affairs, and choose its own direction. With regards to the EU, it means that we are free to be…free. We COULD make individual trade agreements with other countries, but with 63 million in the UK as opposed to 500 million in the EU, we would be small potatoes, regardless of other claims.
This means that there is no contradiction between wishing to leave the UK, but remain in the EU as a respected member nation.
There you are, get stuck into that. I know what to expect, but in the end, insulting someone is proof of one’s own ignorance. It is a sign that the insulting party has nothing constructive to add and has run out of ideas. Anytime a person insults someone instead of responding to the argument itself, they lose the debate by default.
The biggest single market for Scotland though is the UK in terms of your exports and imports. The EU is nowhere near that, even though it has 450 million people and the UK a mere 65 million.
The SNP are only gunning for EU membership to support their single party policy of Scottish independence. In the 1980's, they were dead against EU membership until they realised that nobody would vote for Scotland being isolated, on its own and without a union to support it. So they changed tack and pushed the independent Scotland / EU membership route.
That failed in 2014 even though the UK was an EU member and before the green lobbyists took over. At the time, the SNP were saying they would be self-sufficient with North Sea Oil which would be at over (I think) $167 a barrel and they could have Scotlan living off that alone to keep them afloat. But then it was pointed out that only one time in the history of the world has North Sea Oil been ever the figure they said (something like $167 a barrel) . It was a big fat lie.....
Then Sturgeon said that Scotland would keep the pound as the currency and then use the Euro - another impossibility because first, the Bank of England would never allow a 3rd country to control its own interest rates with its currency and second, Scotland can't have its own tax laws and autonomy to control it.... ever !
So, just a reminder of where Scotland is ...
It is in the ...
UK Customs Union
UK Single market
UK common travel area
UK common currency
UK common taxation system
UK army, navy, Air Force and other common military functions
UK legal system
UK centralised treasury
UK national health service
And even though Scotland is devolved from many UK wide laws so you can self govern in law, health taxation, education etc, you want to leave all of that, for this "independence" to give control to another union which is not finished, in that it ...
Doesn't have a common currency (not all member states have the Euro)
Doesn't have a centralised taxation system or treasury
Has open borders but will insist on a hard customs border in Scotland
Does not have a national health service
Does not have a military, army or Air Force
You would trade with your biggest trading partner (the UK) un much less favourable terms than you are now
Would not have any devolution or autonomy.
Bearing in mind
1. You don't qualify for EU ascension because you have the biggest budget deficit in the EU
2. You have no currency
3. You can't join as a member of another union - you must leave first and then ask to join. In the case of Croatia is took 30 years.
4. The people already voted against it
5. You would be handing back control of just about everything you have, as a devolved nation of the UK and not achieving any form of independence at all.