09-11-2020, 09:16 PM
21
Re: Product endorsement
Originally Posted by realspeed
->
Would you endorse and promote a product you didn't believe in, that is if your job is selling
09-11-2020, 09:21 PM
22
Re: Product endorsement
Originally Posted by The Artful Todger
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It is the responsibility of a sales person to sell a product. If the salesperson has defined within his job description to provide advice on the suitability of the material for a given and stated application then that is a different matter.
Otherwise his responsibility is limited to processing a sale which comes down to negotiating a price and delivery schedule. Nothing more.
Very often in the case of large organisations there is a purchasing department that puts a further stage of separation between sales person and person specifying their choice of material within the users organisation.
The semi legalese you use is unintelligable nto me !!
Surely what you just wrote doesnt imply that the purchaser of the
product is responsible for specifying the materials used to make
the product does it??
If so, then no wonder we have disasters
Donkeyman! 😟😟
09-11-2020, 09:42 PM
23
Re: Product endorsement
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
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I wish you could write in plain english Todgy?The semi legalese you use is unintelligable nto me !!
Surely what you just wrote doesnt imply that the purchaser of the
product is responsible for specifying the materials used to make
the product does it??
If so, then no wonder we have disasters
Donkeyman! 😟😟
In the case of Greenfell time is a factor because of state of the art, along with limitations on how the product is used.
The bottom line remains that if the material originally specified a very different outcome might have resulted.
09-11-2020, 11:14 PM
24
Re: Product endorsement
IF I was a sales rep, which I could never be, no I wouldn't sell, endorse or promote something I didn't believe in.I can't play games like that or act a part. My feet are on the ground and I'm too honest, it's beyond my capabilities, so I'd be homeless and destitute.
I'm incapable of selling myself to myself
10-11-2020, 12:11 PM
25
Re: Product endorsement
Originally Posted by The Artful Todger
->
The purchaser of the product is responsible for purchasing a product that complies with his requirements. The salesperson has to sell the product that the purchaser has specified.In the case of Greenfell time is a factor because of state of the art, along with limitations on how the product is used.
The bottom line remains that if the material originally specified a very different outcome might have resulted.
Donkeyman! 😟😟
10-11-2020, 12:57 PM
26
Re: Product endorsement
There's a huge amount of information lacking and because of that it's still too early to put the manufacturer's neck on the block.
My own opinion remains that the root cause is systemic failure and that requires analysis of responsibilities spread around the council, their contractors, and what checks and balances were in place between council and their contractors.
Of greater concern than Grenfell are other residential buildings in which the same or very similar insulation material has been used and nothing has been done even though people are still living. Councils must be continually be kept with their feet to the fire to get this matter resolved as an absolutely top priority.
11-11-2020, 09:24 PM
27
Re: Product endorsement
Originally Posted by The Artful Todger
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Yes. It was interesting BUT what is missing is the timeline. In particular when and where and by whom decisions were made which brings us back to "state of the art".There's a huge amount of information lacking and because of that it's still too early to put the manufacturer's neck on the block.
My own opinion remains that the root cause is systemic failure and that requires analysis of responsibilities spread around the council, their contractors, and what checks and balances were in place between council and their contractors.
Of greater concern than Grenfell are other residential buildings in which the same or very similar insulation material has been used and nothing has been done even though people are still living. Councils must be continually be kept with their feet to the fire to get this matter resolved as an absolutely top priority.
need their feet kept to the fire by the municipalities ,to ensure that
they only offer products that are fit for purpose, for sale??
Sounds a convoluted way to achieve a safe outcome to me?
Far simpler to have the manufacturers put their products up for
examination by qualified experts in fire safety (ie. The fire brigade!)
To obtain a safety certificate allowing them to sell their shyte??
The poor sods living in blocks of flats now have a real problem to
convince the landlords of the blocks that it is the landlords
responsibility to remove the shyte from their blocks and not the
tenants? Imo the landlords should remove it and then seek recourse
from the manufacturer !!
But, when capitalism runs rife, injustice prevails ??
Donkeyman! 👎👎😟😟👎👎
11-11-2020, 09:40 PM
28
Re: Product endorsement
Originally Posted by realspeed
->
Would you endorse and promote a product you didn't believe in, that is if your job is selling
11-11-2020, 10:06 PM
29
Re: Product endorsement
Originally Posted by Silver Tabby
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Certainly not - I value my integrity.
11-11-2020, 10:26 PM
30
Re: Product endorsement
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
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In other words then Todgy, that distributors and manufacturersneed their feet kept to the fire by the municipalities ,to ensure that
they only offer products that are fit for purpose, for sale??
Sounds a convoluted way to achieve a safe outcome to me?
Far simpler to have the manufacturers put their products up for
examination by qualified experts in fire safety (ie. The fire brigade!)
To obtain a safety certificate allowing them to sell their shyte??
The poor sods living in blocks of flats now have a real problem to
convince the landlords of the blocks that it is the landlords
responsibility to remove the shyte from their blocks and not the
tenants? Imo the landlords should remove it and then seek recourse
from the manufacturer !!
But, when capitalism runs rife, injustice prevails ??
Donkeyman! 👎👎😟😟👎👎
If in this case the product was used within the specs valid at the time then "state of the art" defence applies. In the case of buildings that are now potential fire hazards because of what has been learned then the onus to do something about it is on the leaseholder or possibly the building management business.
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