Re: You Couldn't Make it Up

We put our supreme court in their place by having an election
Solly!!
But you didnt answer my question,
Which is the tail and which is the dog??
German courts or ECJ??

Donkeyman! 🤔🤔

Re: You Couldn't Make it Up

No and no.
The ruling of the supreme court was fully implemented. The supreme courts still has its established place in the legal system, even though some newly elected politicians made a lot of empty claims about a reckoning.

In this case there is neither tail nor dog. The borders of competence are clearly demarkated. But sometimes even a judge can be carried away by his own sense of importance.

Re: You Couldn't Make it Up

So much for socialism, spreading wealth, solidarity with members states, EU Principles etc etc...

So far, the German Constitutional Court does not recognise the ECJ as the ultimate legal entity in the EU (the EU isn't even a country) - this is under German law since way before the EU existed. It's purpose is to be the supreme court in Germany to prevent another uprising like we saw with the Nazis in WW2. As far as it is concerned, the EU is not a country so does not have a court of its own (unless you count "kangaroo courts" as legal entities).

Last week, after about 5 years of prosecution, the German Constitutional Court has found the EU and the ECB guilty of unlawfully purchasing government bonds to keep afloat the Eurozone, by pumping out billions of euros (hundreds and hundreds of billions when this all started and now amounting to around 2.6 trillion). The conclusion of this ruling by the German Constitutional Court is that the ECB and the EU have acted beyond their remit and therefore their actions are unlawful (as documented in their texts).

The German Constitutional Court does not and will never recognise the ECJ as its supreme court because this would be in direct conflict with Germanys national law, set up after WW2 to over-rule / prosecute and prevent any rise of a political movement in Germany (like they saw with the Nazi's) could never happen again. In Germany, it is the German courts and parliament that must decide their laws and be always democratically accountable.

Now ...

When this court case started, hundreds of billions of Euros were being pumped out by QE from purchases of (high risk) government bonds (by the ECB) which have ended up reducing a portion of the German bond market to junk status. It's hit German savers hard with virtually zero interest rates, screwed their pensions and kept inflation low. as time has gone on, those hundreds of billions that have been pumped into the Eurozone through QE now amount to over 2.5 trillion euros so its hardly surprising, Germany is a little bit upset (and we haven't even got to Coronvirus crisis bailout money yet).

Anyway ...

As far as the EU, ECB and the ECJ is concerned, they have about 3 months to form some kind of response to their guilty verdict by the German Constitutional Courts to remedy the situation. It would be perfectly understandable for the ECJ, ECB, EU and the German Constitutional Courts to discuss the formal response to come to an agreement on a way forward ...

Nope ...

Ursula Von Der Leyen, the new Dear Leader, instead sent Germany (her own Fatherland) "one right over the bow" broadsiding them in a big two fingered sneer, telling them (the national, German Constitutional Courts) that ... they are not Germanys supreme court (as they thought), they have been superseded by the ECJ.... at the say-so of the EU (nah nicky nah nah ....)

That's not going to go down well ...

So instead of providing the response which the German Constitutional Courts expect, Ursula Von Der Leyen has decided instead to take "infringement proceedings" against Germany (and the German Constitutional Court) to make her point, suing them basically, them for daring to make a decision against the supremacy of the ECJ, putting them (so she hopes) in their place. Now, here where solidarity between Germany and the EU is getting torn apart in the most spectacular legal spat, pitting one German leader against another and one supreme court against the other, the EU "biting the hand that feeds", so to speak... (quite funny really).

Now here's the kicker.

If Germany wins - its Constitutional Court becomes the supreme court, over and above the ECJ (for Germany at least and we could even see member states petitioning the EU via the German Constitutional Court). QE could now be well and truly shit-canned and Germany could even one step further, suing the ECB and the EU for illegally and fraudulently buying high risk bonds, pushing Eurozone countries into crippling debt at the expense of Germanys bond market, pensions, savings etc etc.

Boom !

If the ECJ win - Germany has its Constitutional Court shit-canned by an unelected bureaucracy behind the backs of the German people - what will the German tax payer think about that ? Not only has their constitution been eroded without them knowing, their bond markets are at the mercy of Brussels who can basically, do what they want to whoever they want all at the expense of the German tax payer !

Boom !

So there we have it, the EU and Germany at loggerheads as to who has the upper hand - whatever the outcome, its not going to be nice (I personally think Ursula Von Der Leyen is off her head trying to fine Germany for trying to erode the ECJ and ECBs power).

So much for the EU Project, lead by socialism and spreading the wealth. I guess that as long as its someone else's money it's fine, if not, screw the EU principles and look after yourself.

Re: You Couldn't Make it Up

Aren't you bored to death by this self-isolation? Where or in what do you find the motivation to write such long rantings on a topic you left behind on 31 january?

Re: You Couldn't Make it Up

No, here it is again.


So much for socialism, spreading wealth, solidarity with members states, EU Principles etc etc...

So far, the German Constitutional Court does not recognise the ECJ as the ultimate legal entity in the EU (the EU isn't even a country) - this is under German law since way before the EU existed. It's purpose is to be the supreme court in Germany to prevent another uprising like we saw with the Nazis in WW2. As far as it is concerned, the EU is not a country so does not have a court of its own (unless you count "kangaroo courts" as legal entities).

Last week, after about 5 years of prosecution, the German Constitutional Court has found the EU and the ECB guilty of unlawfully purchasing government bonds to keep afloat the Eurozone, by pumping out billions of euros (hundreds and hundreds of billions when this all started and now amounting to around 2.6 trillion). The conclusion of this ruling by the German Constitutional Court is that the ECB and the EU have acted beyond their remit and therefore their actions are unlawful (as documented in their texts).

The German Constitutional Court does not and will never recognise the ECJ as its supreme court because this would be in direct conflict with Germanys national law, set up after WW2 to over-rule / prosecute and prevent any rise of a political movement in Germany (like they saw with the Nazi's) could never happen again. In Germany, it is the German courts and parliament that must decide their laws and be always democratically accountable.

Now ...

When this court case started, hundreds of billions of Euros were being pumped out by QE from purchases of (high risk) government bonds (by the ECB) which have ended up reducing a portion of the German bond market to junk status. It's hit German savers hard with virtually zero interest rates, screwed their pensions and kept inflation low. as time has gone on, those hundreds of billions that have been pumped into the Eurozone through QE now amount to over 2.5 trillion euros so its hardly surprising, Germany is a little bit upset (and we haven't even got to Coronvirus crisis bailout money yet).

Anyway ...

As far as the EU, ECB and the ECJ is concerned, they have about 3 months to form some kind of response to their guilty verdict by the German Constitutional Courts to remedy the situation. It would be perfectly understandable for the ECJ, ECB, EU and the German Constitutional Courts to discuss the formal response to come to an agreement on a way forward ...

Nope ...

Ursula Von Der Leyen, the new Dear Leader, instead sent Germany (her own Fatherland) "one right over the bow" broadsiding them in a big two fingered sneer, telling them (the national, German Constitutional Courts) that ... they are not Germanys supreme court (as they thought), they have been superseded by the ECJ.... at the say-so of the EU (nah nicky nah nah ....)

That's not going to go down well ...

So instead of providing the response which the German Constitutional Courts expect, Ursula Von Der Leyen has decided instead to take "infringement proceedings" against Germany (and the German Constitutional Court) to make her point, suing them basically, them for daring to make a decision against the supremacy of the ECJ, putting them (so she hopes) in their place. Now, here where solidarity between Germany and the EU is getting torn apart in the most spectacular legal spat, pitting one German leader against another and one supreme court against the other, the EU "biting the hand that feeds", so to speak... (quite funny really).

Now here's the kicker.

If Germany wins - its Constitutional Court becomes the supreme court, over and above the ECJ (for Germany at least and we could even see member states petitioning the EU via the German Constitutional Court). QE could now be well and truly shit-canned and Germany could even one step further, suing the ECB and the EU for illegally and fraudulently buying high risk bonds, pushing Eurozone countries into crippling debt at the expense of Germanys bond market, pensions, savings etc etc.

Boom !

If the ECJ win - Germany has its Constitutional Court shit-canned by an unelected bureaucracy behind the backs of the German people - what will the German tax payer think about that ? Not only has their constitution been eroded without them knowing, their bond markets are at the mercy of Brussels who can basically, do what they want to whoever they want all at the expense of the German tax payer !

Boom !

So there we have it, the EU and Germany at loggerheads as to who has the upper hand - whatever the outcome, its not going to be nice (I personally think Ursula Von Der Leyen is off her head trying to fine Germany for trying to erode the ECJ and ECBs power).

So much for the EU Project, lead by socialism and spreading the wealth. I guess that as long as its someone else's money it's fine, if not, screw the EU principles and look after yourself.

Re: You Couldn't Make it Up

Nice thinking, research and piece of writing Bread. Whatever Solly might say I think you're right on the money.

Re: You Couldn't Make it Up

Thanks Percy !

Re: You Couldn't Make it Up

Thanks dude. I'll keep it till bedtime. After reading one paragraph I'll be sound asleep.

Re: You Couldn't Make it Up

The ECJ ruled in 2018, two years quicker. Who dares to state they are not efficient?

Re: You Couldn't Make it Up

Just as it is the highest court in the UK on european law, for as long as the UK is in the transition period?
You are in the same position as germany and other EU countries during this time. And beyond.

Your parliament ratified this agreement, and article 87 says:

ARTICLE 87
New cases before the Court of Justice
1. If the European Commission considers that the United Kingdom has failed to fulfil an
obligation under the Treaties or under Part Four of this Agreement before the end of the transition
period, the European Commission may, within 4 years after the end of the transition period, bring
the matter before the Court of Justice of the European Union in accordance with the requirements
laid down in Article 258 TFEU or the second subparagraph of Article 108(2) TFEU, as the case
may be. The Court of Justice of the European Union shall have jurisdiction over such cases.
2. If the United Kingdom does not comply with a decision referred to in Article 95(1) of this
Agreement, or fails to give legal effect in the United Kingdom's legal order to a decision, as referred
to in that provision, that was addressed to a natural or legal person residing or established in the
United Kingdom, the European Commission may, within 4 years from the date of the decision
concerned, bring the matter to the Court of Justice of the European Union in accordance with the
requirements laid down in Article 258 TFEU or the second subparagraph of Article 108(2) TFEU,
as the case may be. The Court of Justice of the European Union shall have jurisdiction over such
cases.