26-12-2020, 12:48 PM
31
Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!
Originally Posted by Aerolor
->
No JBR.I believe there are other reasons why many people believe we should remain part of the European Union. For myself I firmly believe that because we are undeniably Europeans (our blood and ancestry is so intertwined) and because we are in such close proximity to the rest of Europe,it is essential to our future wellbeing that we remain. There will always be bickering between countries within the EU, but the important thing is that together we are all in a much stronger position than we would be separated. The world is full of threats to our security and well-being -you only have to look at China and other hugely populated countries which are developing at a rapid rate. Who is to say how these countries will behave in the future. We may well need to defend ourselves and together we are far stronger than alone. There is strength in numbers if war is a threat.
I don't wish to feel like this but I am not going to turn a blind eye to the possibility and hope it will never happen. Economics aside (although I think our economic fortunes are better in the EU) this is why I believe we should stay together
I think we have put ourselves in a very vulnerable position all ways by removing ourselves. As I said in another post, time will tell, and I probably won't be around long enough. However, I do worry for my children and grandchildren who will inherit the results of our actions.
This might sound rubbish to you (and possibly others) but it how I feel about leaving the EU.
26-12-2020, 01:11 PM
32
Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!
Originally Posted by Cinderella
->
A good post, putting across your point of view without invective.
Yes,I agree.
We have different views about somethings, but Aerolour
Is always a pleasure to debate with
26-12-2020, 01:31 PM
34
Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!
Originally Posted by Aerolor
->
No JBR.I believe there are other reasons why many people believe we should remain part of the European Union. For myself I firmly believe that because we are undeniably Europeans (our blood and ancestry is so intertwined) and because we are in such close proximity to the rest of Europe,it is essential to our future wellbeing that we remain. There will always be bickering between countries within the EU, but the important thing is that together we are all in a much stronger position than we would be separated. The world is full of threats to our security and well-being -you only have to look at China and other hugely populated countries which are developing at a rapid rate. Who is to say how these countries will behave in the future. We may well need to defend ourselves and together we are far stronger than alone. There is strength in numbers if war is a threat.
I don't wish to feel like this but I am not going to turn a blind eye to the possibility and hope it will never happen. Economics aside (although I think our economic fortunes are better in the EU) this is why I believe we should stay together
I think we have put ourselves in a very vulnerable position all ways by removing ourselves. As I said in another post, time will tell, and I probably won't be around long enough. However, I do worry for my children and grandchildren who will inherit the results of our actions.
This might sound rubbish to you (and possibly others) but it how I feel about leaving the EU.
There is a lot of fear and anger in the 27 that the UK has left for this reason, that, while the UK was a member of the EU, should Germany try to occupy them again, the UK would always come to the rescue. Germany has been at it again for the past 40 years or so, but where it failed with military it is succeeding financially with the Euro and binding the 27 to it's interest rate base. This will continue to expand and with the introduction of mutualised debt and now Germany now is holding the Eurozone by the bollx as it has essentially become the Eurozones lender of last resort. Those debts will be called in at some point and when they do it will be in the form of land grabs by regionalisation, extra EU powers for Germany and removal of National Vetoes completely, leaving Germany to be the the only elected leaders and rulers of the EU 27.
Since it's conception the EU has steadily moved away from NATO by introducing it's own satellite communications (Gallileo), it's own digital policy on data sharing (GDPR) and now its common defence policy (or EU army if you like). With it, has come many policies intended to separate the UK from the USA as a consequence and to build its own joint defence programs such as Eurofighter back in the 80s. although this was a consequence of the Cold War, they are still in circulation, where only in the past couple of years, Germany bought 40 of the (defunct useless crap) a couple of years ago instead of the far superior F-35 from the USA. Tying EU countries to buy from EU countries when it comes to defence has been a policy in the making since the 80's and its only just around the corner in terms of it being finalised. We also saw it when the UK was prevented from buying USA Humvees and was forced to buy Italian Panthers, all wrapped up under single market rules and to prevent the UK aligning closer, militarily with the USA.
NATO and nuclear deterrents have been a far, far greater defence mechanism for countries than a political union ever has. To think the UK was "stronger together" as an EU member is simply not true. If that was the case the UK and the USA wouldn't be defending its borders as we do now with NATO. Look at how the EU has been aligning itself with the East, by implementing Huawei 5G, the belt and road project and Nord Stream 2.
We really do not want to be any part of that.
26-12-2020, 02:19 PM
35
Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!
Originally Posted by Bread
->
If you look at the past 2 world wars, there was no political unity between any European country, but the UK came to the rescue all the same. In fact, in the 2nd World War, the UK was fighting Germany on its own for over a year - and it was actually Germany that was the aggressor on both occasions.There is a lot of fear and anger in the 27 that the UK has left for this reason, that, while the UK was a member of the EU, should Germany try to occupy them again, the UK would always come to the rescue. Germany has been at it again for the past 40 years or so, but where it failed with military it is succeeding financially with the Euro and binding the 27 to it's interest rate base. This will continue to expand and with the introduction of mutualised debt and now Germany now is holding the Eurozone by the bollx as it has essentially become the Eurozones lender of last resort. Those debts will be called in at some point and when they do it will be in the form of land grabs by regionalisation, extra EU powers for Germany and removal of National Vetoes completely, leaving Germany to be the the only elected leaders and rulers of the EU 27.
Since it's conception the EU has steadily moved away from NATO by introducing it's own satellite communications (Gallileo), it's own digital policy on data sharing (GDPR) and now its common defence policy (or EU army if you like). With it, has come many policies intended to separate the UK from the USA as a consequence and to build its own joint defence programs such as Eurofighter back in the 80s. although this was a consequence of the Cold War, they are still in circulation, where only in the past couple of years, Germany bought 40 of the (defunct useless crap) a couple of years ago instead of the far superior F-35 from the USA. Tying EU countries to buy from EU countries when it comes to defence has been a policy in the making since the 80's and its only just around the corner in terms of it being finalised. We also saw it when the UK was prevented from buying USA Humvees and was forced to buy Italian Panthers, all wrapped up under single market rules and to prevent the UK aligning closer, militarily with the USA.
NATO and nuclear deterrents have been a far, far greater defence mechanism for countries than a political union ever has. To think the UK was "stronger together" as an EU member is simply not true. If that was the case the UK and the USA wouldn't be defending its borders as we do now with NATO. Look at how the EU has been aligning itself with the East, by implementing Huawei 5G, the belt and road project and Nord Stream 2.
We really do not want to be any part of that.
I can't imagine anyone hoping to ally themselves with a country like France who has shown itself to be our enemy over centuries.
I still maintain that we should have left the EU completely and trade with them - and the world - under WTO rules.
We'd be able to keep our own fish and fishing areas and escape from all EU controls. As I understand it, they are insisting that we remain a party to the ECHR, presumably in order that they can keep dumping their illegal immigrants on to us unhindered.
It is my belief that the EU can never be trusted. The coming years will no doubt prove that to be the case.
26-12-2020, 02:31 PM
36
Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!
Originally Posted by JBR
->
Nor me.I can't imagine anyone hoping to ally themselves with a country like France who has shown itself to be our enemy over centuries.
I still maintain that we should have left the EU completely and trade with them - and the world - under WTO rules.
We'd be able to keep our own fish and fishing areas and escape from all EU controls. As I understand it, they are insisting that we remain a party to the ECHR, presumably in order that they can keep dumping their illegal immigrants on to us unhindered.
It is my belief that the EU can never be trusted. The coming years will no doubt prove that to be the case.
But we signed up to the EHCR before the EU existed ...
26-12-2020, 02:34 PM
37
Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!
Originally Posted by Bread
->
Your bloody right there JBR But we signed up to the EHCR before the EU existed ...
Nothing but complete freedom from the EU will satisfy me.
26-12-2020, 03:07 PM
38
Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!
Originally Posted by JBR
->
Perhaps so, but are we obliged to remain under its jurisdiction, when many suspect that it works in the EU's favour and against us.Nothing but complete freedom from the EU will satisfy me.
The EU haven't signed up to it anyway but never the less we are not in the EU or bound by the ECJ and that includes the Common Market and single market rules etc on immigration etc.
26-12-2020, 03:10 PM
39
Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!
Originally Posted by Bread
->
The EU haven't signed up to it anyway but never the less we are not in the EU or bound by the ECJ and that includes the Common Market and single market rules etc on immigration etc.
Doesn't the ECHR provide legal support for our do-gooders who fight against repatriation of illegal immigrants who the EU have sent to us?
26-12-2020, 04:20 PM
40
Re: Take a Good Hard Look in the Mirror Remoaners!
Originally Posted by JBR
->
I'm as much concerned about our own fifth columnists.Doesn't the ECHR provide legal support for our do-gooders who fight against repatriation of illegal immigrants who the EU have sent to us?
To an extend but we are no longer are bound to the ECJ on our immigration policy ... which is where the problems came from. We could always deport our illegal immigrants but the process through the ECJ was so difficult it was almost impossible to do.
We are no longer tied to the ECJ at all (going on what has been talked about so far).
|
|
