08-09-2018, 11:44 AM
41
Re: Flu jab 2018 booked
Originally Posted by Twink55
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Realist, as a child I had small pox, diphtheria & polio jabs, & I didn't get those diseases... so do you think those jabs were a waste of time? You can't say they didn't work, because the reason for injecting kids with the vaccine was to reduce the number of them who did get it, and then pass it on to others. The theory worked because the number of cases of these diseases was dramatically reduced, and they are only likely to return if we no longer give those protective jabs & people from unprotected countries come to Britain & bring the disease with them!I hear so many people say " I've got the flu" when what they really have is a bad cold...a completely different virus. The flu jab is designed to give help to those, who catch one of the 5 viruses most likely to cause a flu pandemic. Most of us are unlikely to catch these viruses, but if a pandemic did occur I believe that many would kill to get the limited number of jabs that are available.
The only way to prove that the jab doesn't work is to inject half the population, but not the other half, then wait for a pandemic & see how many of each group survive. If there is no significant difference , then I may believe that my jabs have been a waste of time.
Until then, I will continue to have them, because if I didn't and I caught one of the viruses it protects against, I would be distraught, if people I love and care about, caught it and died.
Flu is not a bad cold & it can be a killer, so I prefer to be cautious, rather than rely on the chances of being cured if it does happen.
As a child, I never wanted the jabs but my parents made me have them, because a family member died from Diphtheria & they knew the damage that polio could cause, even if it didn't kill.
It is up to an individual if they want to try alternative methods of avoiding illness, but the NHS can't make them and many won't , but they can help by offering something that may reduce the effects...... and when there is flu pandemics I have never known anyone refuse the jab because some company says it doesn't work
I'm not sure you can compare the efficacy of jabs for diseases like polio diptheria measles etc. with the 'flu jab which alters each year according to the strains predicted.
Polio is polio is polio, smallpox is smallpox is smallpox and so on, and can be specifically and effectively targetted and even eliminated, whereas 'flu varies hugely from year to year which is why sometimes (as in 2014/15 I think) the strain altered after the jab had been made and so was pretty ineffective.
There was a lot of publicity about it at the time.
They make it 6 months ahead of the Winter season and base the ingredients on the strains which have been predicted according to the data obtained.
There's some interesting knowledge to be gained here...http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vaccines
08-09-2018, 12:56 PM
43
Re: Flu jab 2018 booked
Originally Posted by ruthio
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I'm not sure you can compare the efficacy of jabs for diseases like polio diptheria measles etc. with the 'flu jab which alters each year according to the strains predicted.Polio is polio is polio, smallpox is smallpox is smallpox and so on, and can be specifically and effectively targetted and even eliminated, whereas 'flu varies hugely from year to year which is why sometimes (as in 2014/15 I think) the strain altered after the jab had been made and so was pretty ineffective.
There was a lot of publicity about it at the time.
They make it 6 months ahead of the Winter season and base the ingredients on the strains which have been predicted according to the data obtained.
There's some interesting knowledge to be gained here...http://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vaccines
I do feel though, that unless they are tested under pandemic situations, nobody can say they are useless.
08-09-2018, 01:35 PM
44
Re: Flu jab 2018 booked
Originally Posted by Twink55
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Realist, as a child I had small pox, diphtheria & polio jabs, & I didn't get those diseases... so do you think those jabs were a waste of time?
One must take every vaccine at face value. Look at the research for it. Understand whether or not it has been properly tested, understand if any studies done were genuine and impartial or whether they were sponsored by the vaccine manufactirers and thus "fixed", and so on.
I did this for the Shingles Vaccine recently as you know and was able to see that it too is a pile of nonsense, another money spinning scam.
This is where you need to be objective. Currently you are being the equivalent of superstitious. You may as well make sure you don't walk on any cracks in the pavement and then you won't catch flu.
This is your dilemma to resolve. You're either going to have the courage and spirit to confront the facts, irrefutable facts, from 1000s of peer reviewed studies involving many millions of people, or you're going to continue to hide behind emotional rhetoric which has absolutely no relevance to the debate. Remember what you posted about debates and providing proven facts to back things up ? That's where it is at. Look at the facts, examine the facts and accept the facts.
Originally Posted by Twink55
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I hear so many people say " I've got the flu" when what they really have is a bad cold
Originally Posted by Twink55
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The flu jab is designed to give help to those, who catch one of the 5 viruses most likely to cause a flu pandemic.
Let me ask you. At what point in any manufacturing process, be it a car or dishwasher or vaccine, does the product reach that point where it is right and good to roll it out?
If the flu vaccine was designed to help people against these flu viruses and if it has been proven with 1000s of studies involving millions of people to only help 1 in 100 people, then how the hell can it possibly be at the stage of rolling out to the public?
Can you imagine them selling cars that don't work except for 1 in every 100? The idea is utterly ludicrous.
Yet that's what we have with the flu vaccine because the powers that be know they can convince emotional, vulnerable, superstitious and weak minded people to have the vaccine using a purposeful Campaign Of Fear.
Originally Posted by Twink55
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The only way to prove that the jab doesn't work is to inject half the population, but not the other half, then wait for a pandemic & see how many of each group survive.
Just look at the controversy that is now present for Mammography. It has caused immeasurable harm and has been proven to do more harm than good. In time the entire practice will cease, that's already happening in some countries, the UK lags behind as usual. Small compfort for all those women who regularly had Mammograms and who have been harmed as a result.
We don't need to vaccinate 1/2 the population to know that the flu vaccine is useless. If it's been tested with 8 million people worldwide and if those tests show that the vaccine does nothing then we have the answer.
AT THE VERY LEAST WE HAVE THE DATA TO INDICATE THAT THE VACCINE IS IN NO SHAPE WHATSOEVER TO BE ROLLED OUT TO THE PUBLIC !
Originally Posted by Twink55
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Until then, I will continue to have them, because if I didn't and I caught one of the viruses it protects against, I would be distraught
Originally Posted by Twink55
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the NHS . . . can help by offering something that may reduce the effects
Originally Posted by Twink55
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and when there is flu pandemics I have never known anyone refuse the jab because some company says it doesn't work
And lets also comment on your rhetoric about flu pandemics. A few years ago there was a so called Swine Flu pandemic. It has since been exposed as being yet another scam or at the least an incredibly big cock up perpetrated by the powers that be, go read up about it.
There's a good article here:
https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/.../3/296/1555409
They vaccinated a large number of people with their ready made vaccine, I think it was called TAMIFLU can't remember. There are lots of websites outling the awful side effects of that vaccine and I think there are lots of compensation claims involved.
All of this is moot to be honest because right now you're wearing blinkers. You refuse consistently to take on board the factual data from the most respected medical research organisation out there. In so doing you offer no alternative data, no countering source references, just a continual emotional input that you are somehow special and the facts don't apply for you because of your personal medical history.
Until you can be objective and get over that hurdle, nothing is going to change. Nevertheless I will persist in my "evangelical" approach as someone called it, because there are others on the forum willing to evaluate the available facts objectively.
08-09-2018, 01:45 PM
47
Re: Flu jab 2018 booked
Originally Posted by twink55
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realist i can't be bothered to argue with you. You have made your decision, and are entitled to, but so have i and nothing you can say will make me change my mind
08-09-2018, 02:03 PM
50
Re: Flu jab 2018 booked
Originally Posted by Ffosse
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If I caught the flu, I'd have to go into hospital.
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