Re: Russian trawlers in scottish waters??

There is a big difference between carp fishing and sea fishing, Mups.

I agree with carp fishing being a bit crazy, catching them over and over again. Even the carp fishermen I have problem with because on one hand they rub Bonjela on the fish's lips and unhook them on special unhooking mats and on the other they just dragged it 150 yards through a pond suspended on a size 0/8 hook. It's very hypocritical and the carp fishermen even have names for the fish and can tell you how much weight they lost/put on since the last time they caught it.

Sea fishing is totally different. The probability is that the fish will only ever be caught once in its lifetime. If the fish is sizeable, then 99% of the time I'll take it home, only keeping what I need. If a fish is undersize (they are all measured to the SAMF and MLS minimum sizes) they are put back.

Where I disagree with this is that all fish should be caught and killed - sounds harsh, but putting undersized or sizeable fish back that will die anyway is not the right thing to do - if you see a lot of small dead fish on the beach, its probably because a match was held there and all the undersized fish washed back up dead after they were thrown back. France has a catch and kill policy even for carp.

A lot of tuna is line-caught now. Netting is banned for some species to preserve the stocks, so if you like tuna, you can bet it was caught by a commercial fisherman with a rod and line.

There are always the few bad apples that give fishing a bad name, but generally, sport fisherman are incredibly pro-conservation because if they weren't it would kill the sport (I say sport because what it means is "not commercial" or recreational).

just my 2 cents

Re: Russian trawlers in scottish waters??

Surely the bottom line is that torturing any living thing for pleasure is just plain wrong?

Re: Russian trawlers in scottish waters??

You don't think it's always wrong? E.g. waterboarding (suspected) terrorists or spies?

Re: Russian trawlers in scottish waters??

There is no scientific proof of that as far as fishing is concerned, Todger. Several attempts to prove/disprove fish can/can't feel pain have been made but none proved it one way or the other IMHO. Here's just a few of hundreds of links I found on this very subject. Personally, I use only barbless hooks to minimise any damage to a fish's mouth.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...cientists.html

https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-...ish-feel-pain/

https://www.businessinsider.com/fish...17-1?r=US&IR=T

https://www.anglingtimes.co.uk/fishi...on-t-feel-pain

Re: Russian trawlers in scottish waters??

But I'm not turturing fish for pleasure, I'm catching them,, killing them then eating them, or catching them and putting them back.

Do you know how your fish and meat is killed and caught and farmed and reared ?

It wasn't long ago the "luvvies" were trying to get the name changed from "codling" (a cod under 6lb in weight) to "Sea Kitten" because they didn't like fishermen catching them and eating them even though they were over minimum landing size. These are the same people who tried to change the name of "Pollock" to "Colin" because it sounded like "bollocks".

I take it your one of these people AT ?

Re: Russian trawlers in scottish waters??

I see absolutely nothing wrong with using whatever works on suspected terrorists or spies.

What I would say is that extracting information is not just about inflicting even excruciating pain. It has to include fear. Really committed scum can and often will manage pain right up to the point of death but fear, that's a different matter.

Pain AND fear, that's a winning combination but not simply a fear of death. It's necessary to break the subjects mind and rationality before raw pain starts to work. Time works too. A good interrogator can break anyone within a week one way or another. But a good interrogator does not do his job out of pleasure.

Re: Russian trawlers in scottish waters??

Yes, scientific knowledge about pain is important. Probably you think its worth the suffering the nazis induced during their 'medical' experimentations on laboratory specimen they didn't consider human. Much insight on the subject of pain was gained during that time.

Re: Russian trawlers in scottish waters??

Just can't help yourself can you.

Re: Russian trawlers in scottish waters??

So look on it this way. There IS evidence that fish feel pain, the lateral line along with sensory organs alone indicate that such is the case and so given that it's reason enough not to undertake actions that even might cause pain and distress for ones own pleasure and amusement.

Re: Russian trawlers in scottish waters??

Its not animal cruelty disguised as hunting if thats what your getting at.

Give up meat and fish if you feel so strongly about it