Join for free
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 > Last »
shropshiregirl's Avatar
shropshiregirl
Chatterbox
shropshiregirl is offline
Shropshire
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,919
shropshiregirl is female  shropshiregirl has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
18-02-2020, 03:59 PM
1

Why Shouldn't We Just Walk Away?

Please correct me if I’m wrong. I’m not really into the economics of the trade deals currently due to take place. It’s only what I read that makes me think - why are we even bothering?
Before Trade talks have even started, we have Barnier and his merry men making demands that if it wasn’t so serious a topic, it would be laughed out by any negotiating team in any room.

Take for instance what is happening at the moment. We have 10.½ months to go before we either sign off with a trade deal or loathe though we would be to, we simply walk.
Sounds like the same ol’ same ol’ that the EU are trying to start all over again.

Which made me ponder - Do we really want or even need a trade deal with the EU? I hear often on OFF that of course we do, that the EU is our largest trading partner, but do we?,
do we really need one?

Okay, if the EU puts a stop to acting so juvenile and hard to work with, such as their outrageous demand that the UK has to sign up to regulatory alignment on labour and no doubt; will try their luck with demanding harmonising taxes. There shouldn’t be any need to not have a friendly no tariff deal with the EU and then get them to fully understand that we are serious over our own courts dealing with our laws, freedom of movement, and the right of the UK to decide who we allow to fish in our waters are not and never will be, up for negotiation.

I can understand that they are probably (and rightly) fearful of the UK as their nearest neighbour becoming deregulated and undercutting them with taxes, welfare and labour markets,(our choices, our decisions), hence the reason why I believe they are being so hard-faced and spewing out these ridiculous demands in order for us to be allowed the privilege of gaining access to the EU markets. The problem with Barnier & Co is that they became so accustomed to dealing with first Cameron and then May during their respective reigns, they easily became used to being ‘top dog’ and disrespectful. Even the smallest member state leaders were disgracefully arrogant and rude to May. Does anyone remember every time the EU came out with a statement during that time of negotiations with May. It always seemed to be a case of “The EU will “give” the UK”......etc. Certainly seemed to be a case of the EU dealing with us as an insignificant little country not worthy of the respect of equal negotiations.
Apparently they still haven't realized things are no longer the same. Their problem is that they still haven’t grasped the fact that they are no longer dealing with an avid Remainer and a closet Remainer, but a real beating heart British Brexit Bulldog?!!

That’s why I wonder why don’t we just walk away from them?

Wasn’t it publicised not so long ago that the UK’s trade with the EU is in decline anyway? From what I read our exports have been declining by about 1% a year. Surely with their weak economy, that will only continue. In fact, as we mainly export services and digital products, distance is not important. To be honest, Europe is becoming less important to us every year.

Also, what if and when we get a trade deal with the US? Isn’t there a danger that the deal may become incompatible with the EU? Both countries are like chalk and cheese with their regulations, Brussels still hasn’t managed to agree a deal with them after years of negotiations. Do you think it may well come to a choice for us between a deal with the EU or the US? Personally, I think if it came to a choice it would have to be the US as it’s economy is growing faster than the EU's and surely they are more compatible with our services and tech economy.

Besides, our businesses here in the UK have been through years of unnecessary hell with Project Fear and No Deal deadlines. Now it’s blatantly obvious to everyone that the EU would be happy for this to continue. They have nothing to lose, so months of wrangling, ridiculous concessions, delays and yet another extension would be right up their street, while our own businesses would continue to suffer due to the uncertainty., Surely then, perhaps the best thing to do with the EU's second bout of intransigence, is to just walk out, walk away and move on and operate under WTO rules. Okay. we will have to take a hit, but we would deal with it and get on with being an independent country dealing with the rest of the world in trade.
I would have thought it's a no brainer really, but what do I know.

What are your thoughts?
Solasch's Avatar
Solasch
Chatterbox
Solasch is offline
Netherlands
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 8,963
Solasch is male  Solasch has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
18-02-2020, 04:12 PM
2

Re: Why Shouldn't We Just Walk Away?

Not even boris is prepared to be regarded by history as the lunatic who brought that on the UK.
realspeed
Chatterbox
realspeed is offline
South coast
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 12,931
realspeed is male  realspeed has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
18-02-2020, 04:17 PM
3

Re: Why Shouldn't We Just Walk Away?

Yes we should just walk away and let the EU come running after us. We don't need them as much as they want our financial contributions . Lets just see how they people feel when they have to contribute more from their wage packets. It will hit were it hurts most,higher tax demands for everyone, and more demands from those money grabbing countries who contribute nothing

In the meantime we can sit back and just say to them all "Do as we do and leave"
Bread's Avatar
Bread
Chatterbox
Bread is offline
Sudbury, United Kingdom
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 10,656
Bread is male  Bread has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
18-02-2020, 04:30 PM
4

Re: Why Shouldn't We Just Walk Away?

No, we don't

The only thing to fear is the common external tariff like every other non-EU country has to pay. There are things to reduce the impact of that too - like import more into the UK than export into it, devalue currency, inward processing, reduce VAT rates etc etc etc

It's the EU that need a trade deal with us because of the amount of imports they send to the UK single market.

Of the top countries for EU 27 exports (minus imports) and according to the latest EU figures published on Eurostat ...


USA €384 Billion
UK €318 Billion
China €198 Billion
Switzerland €148 Billion

The rest are below €100 Billion, next Russia €90 Billion, then Turkey €80 Billion and so on.

This means we are 7 times larger than Canada for trade, for example.

Note the EU now reports the UK as a non-EU country

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/docume...5-077b4860d63e
swimfeeders
Chatterbox
swimfeeders is offline
Shropshire
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 24,056
swimfeeders is male  swimfeeders has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
18-02-2020, 04:50 PM
5

Re: Why Shouldn't We Just Walk Away?

Hi

We have just signed a Legal Agreement, Enforceable in the International Courts, nothing to do with the ECJ.

If we break it, we are liable for any and all costs incurred by the EU.

Secondly, the EU have all the systems in place to collect Tariffs.

We do not.

Thirdly, Car production.

Roughly 40% of our car exports go to the EU, 12% of EU car exports go to the UK.

We will be the loser on WTO Tariffs.

The EU are not going to come running.

They own Vauxhall, Bentley, Rolls and Mini.

Honda is already closing down.

Nissan and Toyota export huge amounts to the EU, they will make a decision.

It is not the UK who will make the decisions, it will be Foreign Companies.
Donkeyman
Chatterbox
Donkeyman is offline
Melton,United Kingdom
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 9,088
Donkeyman is male  Donkeyman has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
18-02-2020, 05:59 PM
6

Re: Why Shouldn't We Just Walk Away?

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

We have just signed a Legal Agreement, Enforceable in the International Courts, nothing to do with the ECJ.

If we break it, we are liable for any and all costs incurred by the EU.

Secondly, the EU have all the systems in place to collect Tariffs.

We do not.

Thirdly, Car production.

Roughly 40% of our car exports go to the EU, 12% of EU car exports go to the UK.

We will be the loser on WTO Tariffs.

The EU are not going to come running.

They own Vauxhall, Bentley, Rolls and Mini.

Honda is already closing down.

Nissan and Toyota export huge amounts to the EU, they will make a decision.

It is not the UK who will make the decisions, it will be Foreign Companies.
Swimmy, you keep preaching pecentages and how much our
exporters depend on the eu! But the fact is the our trade with eu
costs us as a country approx £80 billion p.a. Enough to build a
HS2 every year!! So obviously it will be advantageous for us to
cease doing this and just contiue to trade with the rest of the world
only more so, as this is what is allready subsidising eu membership?
Yes the unfortunate companies that do happen to export to eu will
have to adapt but they are the smaller part of what sustains this
country? And and we are all aware that there are some risks
involved and what they are so we dont need constant reminders
preached to us!
Donkeyman!
shropshiregirl's Avatar
shropshiregirl
Chatterbox
shropshiregirl is offline
Shropshire
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,919
shropshiregirl is female  shropshiregirl has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
18-02-2020, 06:48 PM
7

Re: Why Shouldn't We Just Walk Away?

Just been reading that Angela Merkle has admitted that the bloc are ready to back changes to the Lisbon treaty in order to compete with the UK, strengthen their competitiveness and to be able to act quickly.

Hmm, must be nice to have the key to the book and anytime take out what one doesn't like! or choose what is to their advantage.

Wonder what would have been the reply if any other member state had requested the same?
Meg's Avatar
Meg
Supervisor
Meg is offline
Worcestershire
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 42,850
Meg is female  Meg has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
18-02-2020, 06:51 PM
8

Re: Why Shouldn't We Just Walk Away?

Not so much a case of 'Why Shouldn't We Just Walk Away?' as ''We will be walking away if we can't reach a deal beneficial to the UK '' I think this has been made clear to the EU now or if not they better grasp that fact quickly .

Quoting David Frost our EU negotiator....

“...we are going to have a huge advantage over the EU – the ability to set regulations for new sectors, the new ideas, and new conditions – quicker than the EU can, and based on sound science not fear of the future”
OldGreyFox's Avatar
OldGreyFox
Chatterbox
OldGreyFox is offline
South Yorkshire
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 21,202
OldGreyFox is male  OldGreyFox has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
18-02-2020, 09:45 PM
9

Re: Why Shouldn't We Just Walk Away?

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

We have just signed a Legal Agreement, Enforceable in the International Courts, nothing to do with the ECJ.

If we break it, we are liable for any and all costs incurred by the EU.

Secondly, the EU have all the systems in place to collect Tariffs.

We do not.

Thirdly, Car production.

Roughly 40% of our car exports go to the EU, 12% of EU car exports go to the UK.

We will be the loser on WTO Tariffs.

The EU are not going to come running.

They own Vauxhall, Bentley, Rolls and Mini.

Honda is already closing down.

Nissan and Toyota export huge amounts to the EU, they will make a decision.

It is not the UK who will make the decisions, it will be Foreign Companies.
We shot ourselves in the foot by announcing that diesel engines will no longer be welcomed in the UK. Most motor manufacturers that are thinking of pulling out of the UK is so they can setup engine manufacture in countries that welcome diesel engines, very little to do with the EU.
Bread's Avatar
Bread
Chatterbox
Bread is offline
Sudbury, United Kingdom
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 10,656
Bread is male  Bread has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
18-02-2020, 09:47 PM
10

Re: Why Shouldn't We Just Walk Away?

Originally Posted by OldGreyFox ->
We shot ourselves in the foot by announcing that diesel engines will no longer be welcomed in the UK. Most motor manufacturers that are thinking of pulling out of the UK is so they can setup engine manufacture in countries that welcome diesel engines, very little to do with the EU.

But it also kick started our battery technology innovation which is world leading now.

Hydrogen will be the next revolution ..
 
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 > Last »

Thread Tools


© Copyright 2009, Over50sForum   Contact Us | Over 50s Forum! | Archive | Privacy Statement | Terms of Use | Top

Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.