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Fogey
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18-10-2018, 10:45 AM
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Is Democracy Dead?

Mrs May has, in her infinite wisdom, decided to negotiate her version of Brexit with the Bureaucrats of Brussels.

Soubry, Clarke, et al are actively campaigning for a second referendum, under the guise of 'The People's Vote', to reverse the decision the people made to leave the EU.

The arguments of the Remainers are getting more vitriolic, condescending and poisonous as time passes and all this is done openly, flying in the face of those of who voted to leave the EU.

I'm sick to death watching the sly, deceitful, poisonous manoeuvring of some politicians and the depths they'll sink to to get their own way.

So, is democracy dead in this country, or is this the new version of democracy?
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Cinderella
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18-10-2018, 10:57 AM
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Re: Is Democracy Dead?

Am beginning to believe it never existed. We should have known it was too good to be true.
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Judd
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18-10-2018, 10:59 AM
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Re: Is Democracy Dead?

Was democracy alive in the first place? People vote for a particular person or party in the belief that they will actually carry out the promises made in their manifestos. Once they have got in to power the electorate don't matter any more and they do what they like.

This latest act of betrayal is just another example of the duplicity of MPs.
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Puddle Duck
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18-10-2018, 12:13 PM
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Re: Is Democracy Dead?

Originally Posted by Judd ->
Was democracy alive in the first place? People vote for a particular person or party in the belief that they will actually carry out the promises made in their manifestos. Once they have got in to power the electorate don't matter any more and they do what they like.

This latest act of betrayal is just another example of the duplicity of MPs.
Agree with all of that although I do believe we have more grounding of democracy than the other bunch from the EU Parliament, most of whom have grown up in Eastern block countries, and so their 'ideas ' of democracy is very different to ours.
At the same time, the other geeks, the failed politicians, Blair. Hestletine and Clegg are trying to disrupt the whole Brexit affair by writing in the German tabloids and persuading the Europeans about how bad this Brexit vote is, and we need a people's vote. Are they agitating for influence from the mobs in Europe to come over and raise merry hell or what ?
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Meg
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18-10-2018, 12:14 PM
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Re: Is Democracy Dead?

I understand Blair, Clegg and Heseltine have teamed up to try to inflict on us their own kind of democracy
I don't know why these 'has beens' are given so much media attention.

Perhaps a new version of democracy will emerge from all this nonsense, we really do need some kind of centre ground democratic party since the Liberals lost their way.

ETA Sorry PD, posted at the same time...
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Solasch
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18-10-2018, 12:26 PM
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Re: Is Democracy Dead?

[QUOTE=Puddle Duck;1546871]Agree with all of that although I do believe we have more grounding of democracy than the other bunch from the EU Parliament, most of whom have grown up in Eastern block countries, and so their 'ideas ' of democracy is very different to ours.

QUOTE]

Forgot about greece and italy where democracy was invented when the celts were scourging the green hills of england. And where did the french aristocracy flee when the french people brought democracy about?

Your referendum was never more than an advice to your government. An advice they should have ignored in the interest of their citizens.
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Solasch
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18-10-2018, 12:39 PM
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Re: Is Democracy Dead?

Originally Posted by Judd ->
Was democracy alive in the first place? People vote for a particular person or party in the belief that they will actually carry out the promises made in their manifestos. Once they have got in to power the electorate don't matter any more and they do what they like.

This latest act of betrayal is just another example of the duplicity of MPs.
Rule of the majority" is what you define as democracy. Democracy, however, is a system of processing conflicts in which outcomes depend on what participants do, but no single force controls what occurs and its outcomes.
The uncertainty of outcomes is inherent in democracy, which makes all forces struggle repeatedly for the realization of their interests, being the devolution of power from a group of people to a set of rule.
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18-10-2018, 12:56 PM
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Re: Is Democracy Dead?

[QUOTE=Solasch;1546879]
Originally Posted by Puddle Duck ->
Agree with all of that although I do believe we have more grounding of democracy than the other bunch from the EU Parliament, most of whom have grown up in Eastern block countries, and so their 'ideas ' of democracy is very different to ours.

QUOTE]

Forgot about greece and italy where democracy was invented when the celts were scourging the green hills of england. And where did the french aristocracy flee when the french people brought democracy about?

Your referendum was never more than an advice to your government. An advice they should have ignored in the interest of their citizens.
What nonsense. A typical response of those who voted to remain. Nowhere in the run-up to the referendum or after it did it say that the vote was advisory. In his speech after the result, David Cameron stated in the Commons that the will of the people as been heard and should be heeded.

From his speech:

"Mr Speaker, the British people have voted to leave the European Union. It was not the result I wanted – nor the outcome that I believed is best for the country I love. But there can be no doubt about the result.

Of course, I don’t take back what I said about the risks. It is going to be difficult. We have already seen that there are going to be adjustments within our economy, complex constitutional issues, and a challenging new negotiation to undertake with Europe. But I am clear – and the Cabinet agreed this morning – that the decision must be accepted and the process of implementing the decision in the best possible way must now begin."

You can read the full article here:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...m-27-june-2016
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Julie1962
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18-10-2018, 01:12 PM
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Re: Is Democracy Dead?

They need to be very careful if they kill it completely they may find they get more than they expected as an electorate finds ways to make it's self heard. Poll tax proved they have to listen imo
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Cinderella
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18-10-2018, 01:17 PM
10

Re: Is Democracy Dead?

Ask yourself, Is democracy representative any more?
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