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15-11-2018, 07:51 PM
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So this is where I stand

I have avoided discussing the dreaded Brexit for weeks now, having said all that I had to say, but now, as there is something actually on the table, here is where I now stand...

I now believe that the deal negotiated by Mrs. May and her team is the best that we are able to get from the EU and we need to put our differences aside and start backing it, not only because it's the only half decent deal on the table, however imperfect that individually we see it, but because any of the alternatives such as no deal are just too awful to contemplate.

Let's face it, no two people wanted the same Brexit and all of us had a different idea of what it would mean, but pragmatically we all must have realised that huge compromises would have to be made, and non of us would attain our ideal vision.

So let's come together now and stop fighting one another like rats in a sack, let's move forward behind the Prime Minister to get this deal through parliament and get on with making our way in the world whilst trying to heal our society, which has been so riven by this matter.

I have asked my MP Ben Bradley who has stated his opposition to this deal to change his stance and get behind the government, not just because in reality there is nowhere else to go, but also because it's the right thing to do.
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15-11-2018, 08:39 PM
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Re: So this is where I stand

Barry I agree with your stance.
I knew when I voted leave it wouldn't be easy but I hadn't anticipated quite so many obstacles being put in the way of our leaving from so many different quarters.

I watch today's spectacle in the commons and was reminded of a lot of unruly children having temper tantrums because they couldn't get every little thing their own way and hadn't learnt the adult art of compromise.

I think we have to be realistic and for me accepting the deal on offer with the prospect of something better coming out of future negotiations is preferable to not leaving the EU at all .
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15-11-2018, 10:13 PM
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Re: So this is where I stand

Perhaps I'm out on a limb, but I disagree.

May's 'deal' keeps us under the control of the EU in several respects, and other aspects of the deal are too non-specific as to permit further concessions to the EU in the future.

As letters of 'no confidence' in May continue to increase, there is a distinct possibility of her losing her position and with it, hopefully, her 'deal'.

I voted to leave the EU and not remain half-in and half-out.

Another thing is that, although I haven't seen it mentioned, it is quite likely that we are going to pay at least 39 billion to the EU for this 'deal'.
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15-11-2018, 10:19 PM
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Re: So this is where I stand

Where I stand is I'd rather stay in than this mess. I'd rather have no deal than stay in.
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15-11-2018, 10:31 PM
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Re: So this is where I stand

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
Where I stand is I'd rather stay in than this mess. I'd rather have no deal than stay in.
Me too.

I have yet to hear any definite prohibitive consequences of a no-deal Brexit...

...other than the promises made by the prophets of doom, of course!
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15-11-2018, 11:19 PM
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Re: So this is where I stand

Originally Posted by JBR ->
Me too.

I have yet to hear any definite prohibitive consequences of a no-deal Brexit...

...other than the promises made by the prophets of doom, of course!
JB I am afraid 'no deal' means staying in, it wouldn't get through parliament there are too many opponents.

I think the EU will pass the deal on the table and there will be enough Labour abstentions to get it through here.

The worst possible thing for me is staying in after all this.

As for a vote of no confidence against May, it seems the numbers show she will survive that.
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15-11-2018, 11:49 PM
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Re: So this is where I stand

Originally Posted by Meg ->
JB I am afraid 'no deal' means staying in, it wouldn't get through parliament there are too many opponents.

I think the EU will pass the deal on the table and there will be enough Labour abstentions to get it through here.

The worst possible thing for me is staying in after all this.

As for a vote of no confidence against May, it seems the numbers show she will survive that.
If you're correct, then we can look forward to this country effectively remaining in the EU.

That is not what I, or millions of others voted for. If the referendum decision is not respected by the Commons, then as far as I'm concerned, this country cannot regard itself as being a democracy. As such, I see no point in voting again.

So the only hope remaining is that the EU will collapse, which has been suggested by many people. By then, of course, we shall have lost not only billions of pounds more, but also our independence and, possibly even our nationality.
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16-11-2018, 12:03 AM
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Re: So this is where I stand

Originally Posted by JBR ->
If you're correct, then we can look forward to this country effectively remaining in the EU.

That is not what I, or millions of others voted for. If the referendum decision is not respected by the Commons, then as far as I'm concerned, this country cannot regard itself as being a democracy. As such, I see no point in voting again.

So the only hope remaining is that the EU will collapse, which has been suggested by many people. By then, of course, we shall have lost not only billions of pounds more, but also our independence and, possibly even our nationality.
I am completely with you on this JBR. I also voted to leave, not half leave. The 'deal' is apparently 585 pages long, so I don't see how anyone could have read it, digested it and decided that it is the best we can get. Surely the Brexit secretary knows best and he has resigned because of it.

I cannot get behind May now I'm afraid, I only voted Tory to avoid voting Labour anyway. Then there is the question of the 39B. No way!!
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16-11-2018, 12:08 AM
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Re: So this is where I stand

Originally Posted by Longdogs ->
I am completely with you on this JBR. I also voted to leave, not half leave. The 'deal' is apparently 585 pages long, so I don't see how anyone could have read it, digested it and decided that it is the best we can get. Surely the Brexit secretary knows best and he has resigned because of it.

I cannot get behind May now I'm afraid, I only voted Tory to avoid voting Labour anyway. Then there is the question of the 39B. No way!!
I wonder how many politicians in the Commons have actually read all of that! My suspicion is that May has put this tome together in the hope that most MPs won't actually read it all!

My hope is that the so-called 'deal' will be rejected by the majority of MPs on both sides of the Commons when the vote is held.
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16-11-2018, 12:11 AM
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Re: So this is where I stand

Originally Posted by JBR ->
I wonder how many politicians in the Commons have actually read all of that!

My hope is that the so-called 'deal' will be rejected by the majority of MPs on both sides of the Commons when the vote is held.
Well, there will be trouble if it is and trouble if it isn't.
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