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Omah
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06-03-2019, 03:01 AM
1

Knife Crime - Petition to Parliament

The following is now available:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/233926

Petition

People found with a knife to get 10 years and using a knife 25 years in prison.

People are scared of the amount of knife crime with apparently very little deterent to stop people carrying knifes.

So far: 38,842 signatures

Government responds to all petitions that get more than 10,000 signatures

Waiting for 6 days for a government response

At 100,000 signatures, this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament

NOTE:

291 petitions got a response from the Government

53 petitions were debated in the House of Commons
Please consider and sign - it's another way to force the issue of knife crime to be addressed by government.

IMO, if knife crime hasn't already come to your district then it will soon .....

As yet, there have been no knife crimes in my (small) town but there have been several recent incidents in the nearest large town and what happens there always spills over, eventually, into the surrounding district .....
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Moscow
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06-03-2019, 08:29 AM
2

Re: Knife Crime - Petition to Parliament

Originally Posted by Omah ->
The following is now available:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/233926



Please consider and sign - it's another way to force the issue of knife crime to be addressed by government.

IMO, if knife crime hasn't already come to your district then it will soon .....

As yet, there have been no knife crimes in my (small) town but there have been several recent incidents in the nearest large town and what happens there always spills over, eventually, into the surrounding district .....

Blunt legislation won't help knife crime.

Increased Police numbers per se will NOT reduce knife crime.

ENGAGEMENT with the community will reduce knife crime.

Investment in youth services WILL reduce knife crime.

Changing the culture and mindset of the people vulnerable to gang culture and keeping kids IN school and using their time constructively will reduce knife crime.

Police officers need to be a PART of the communities they police.

Most police officers rub these communities up the wrong way and these communities will NOT engage. The Police engage in inappropriate contact and target the wrong people They have to change the way they police these affected communities

This is a multi-layered and complex problem and signing petitions will not take a single knife out of the hands of a young person in a gang who's frightened every time he walks out on the street.
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06-03-2019, 09:27 AM
3

Re: Knife Crime - Petition to Parliament

Originally Posted by Moscow ->
Blunt legislation won't help knife crime.

Increased Police numbers per se will NOT reduce knife crime.

ENGAGEMENT with the community will reduce knife crime.

Investment in youth services WILL reduce knife crime.

Changing the culture and mindset of the people vulnerable to gang culture and keeping kids IN school and using their time constructively will reduce knife crime.

Police officers need to be a PART of the communities they police.

Most police officers rub these communities up the wrong way and these communities will NOT engage. The Police engage in inappropriate contact and target the wrong people They have to change the way they police these affected communities

This is a multi-layered and complex problem and signing petitions will not take a single knife out of the hands of a young person in a gang who's frightened every time he walks out on the street.
I think differently Moscow. it doesn't matter how many police officers there are in the community, knife crime will not stop unless the courts deal with it appropriately. They can arrest as many as they like but if they get off with it, they will do it again. There needs to be a harsh deterrent, a warning that is put out there. If you are found with a knife or a gun, you will be dealt with.
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06-03-2019, 09:31 AM
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Re: Knife Crime - Petition to Parliament

Signed
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06-03-2019, 09:37 AM
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Re: Knife Crime - Petition to Parliament

I agree with Longdogs and Moscow - both approaches will imo work they should not be in opposition. I would though like to see a strong advertising campaign by the govt to warn of the consequences of owning and carrying and using knifes as a means of attacking people.
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06-03-2019, 09:41 AM
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Re: Knife Crime - Petition to Parliament

Originally Posted by gumbud ->
I agree with Longdogs and Moscow - both approaches will imo work they should not be in opposition. I would though like to see a strong advertising campaign by the govt to warn of the consequences of owning and carrying and using knifes as a means of attacking people.
Unusual for you to agree with me Gumbo but, yes, you do have a point (never thought I would say that).
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06-03-2019, 09:51 AM
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Re: Knife Crime - Petition to Parliament

Our long standing constitution states that we have:

"the right to bear arms"

How is a person to defend themselves if all the crooks are carrying weapons but the oridnary folk are not permitted?

The police clearly can't protect civilians. The problem is too big.

People will always have weapons because by our very nature we are tuned to survive and defend ourselves. Even if you remove all knives, there still exist people with dedicated fighting techniques and abilities, martial artists, street fighting experts. Do we not class that also as "carrying a weapon"?

Should we throw all martial arts people in jail simply because they have the ability to harm others?

This whole thing is somewhat ridiculous.

If I carry a weapon of any kind, it doesn't mean I will use it. Most would carry something to be able to defend themselves from thugs and crooks and villains.

The punishment should be dished out to those who carry out attacks without provocation, not to those simply carrying some kind of weapon for defensive purposes.

If they do succeed in preventing people carrying knives then the thugs will instead carry something else. Maybe a piece of rope or wire to strangle with. Maybe some improvised weapon concealed as something else.

What this all really boils down to is the inability or outright refusal of the state to deal properly with criminals and gangs perpetrating crimes. The issue has nothing to do with knives other than that's the flavour of the month issue the news wants to focus on.

Let's make absolutely no mistake here. If the government wanted to rid East London of gangs it could do so in the space of a couple of weeks. They could send in expert military squads who would kill and remove the thugs extremely quickly. They will already be well aware who they all are. However such actions would be seens as totalitarian police state traits and many would then be up in arms about how the government is acting.

Removing knives solves little. It doesn't deal with the root problem of why these people are violent in the first place, why they want to harm others, how they are learning and falling into that life.

Knives will just be replaced with something else.
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Omah
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06-03-2019, 11:05 AM
8

Re: Knife Crime - Petition to Parliament

Originally Posted by Moscow ->
This is a multi-layered and complex problem and signing petitions will not take a single knife out of the hands of a young person in a gang who's frightened every time he walks out on the street.
You're not signing then .....

So far 42,035 people have .....
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marmaduke
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06-03-2019, 11:15 AM
9

Re: Knife Crime - Petition to Parliament

As far as I know it’s already against the law to carry a knife without reason this bringing a 10 year prison sentence but as always we never prosecute criminals ..
I see it as a black killing black gang problem and don’t pay it any attention , indeed I’ve even heard the odd story behind the stabbing and thought great another lowlife scum dead ... bring it on!
However recently that poor young girl died , totally innocent and this saddens me but for many many many reasons we are at where we’re at and there is no silver bullet ... signing things , shouting , complaining are only sound bites ... the police indeed everyone lost the feral kids generations ago and add drugs/cash for for thick no hope kids and you are fighting a losing battle
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Omah
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06-03-2019, 11:31 AM
10

Re: Knife Crime - Petition to Parliament

Originally Posted by Realist ->
Our long standing constitution states that we have:

"the right to bear arms"
Appararently, the UK does not have a "long standing constitution".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consti...United_Kingdom

The United Kingdom does not have a codified constitution such as other countries tend to have. Instead of such a constitution, certain documents stand to serve as replacements in lieu of one. These texts and their provisions therein are considered to be constitutional, such that the "constitution of the United Kingdom" or "British constitution" may refer to a number of historical and momentous laws and principles like the Acts of Union 1707 and the Acts of Union 1800 which formulate the country's body politic. Thus the term "UK constitution" is sometimes said to refer to an "unwritten" or uncodified constitution. The British constitution primarily draws from four sources: statute law (laws passed by the legislature), common law (laws established through court judgments), parliamentary conventions, and works of authority. Similar to a constitutional document, it also concerns both the relationship between the individual and the state and the functioning of the legislature, the executive, and the judiciary.

Since the Glorious Revolution of 1688, the concept of parliamentary sovereignty has been the bedrock of the British legislative constitution. The statutes passed by Parliament are the supreme and final source of law in the UK. It follows that Parliament can change the constitution simply by passing new statutes through Acts of Parliament.
Apparently, "the right to bear arms" (or similar) is mentioned in English Bill of Rights 1689:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/england.asp

That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law;
but how much of that "right" for knives (for example) is nowadays "allowed by law" is the subject of:

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Selling, buying and carrying knives

Basic laws on knives

Itís illegal to:
  • sell a knife to anyone under 18, unless it has a folding blade 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less
  • carry a knife in public without good reason, unless it has a folding blade with a cutting edge 3 inches long or less
  • carry, buy or sell any type of banned knife
  • use any knife in a threatening way (even a legal knife)
Presumably, carrying 'swords and pistols' is similarly, nowadays, illegal.

So far 42,433 people have signed the petition .....
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