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Fosterbrad
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14-03-2019, 03:04 PM
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Second EU Referendum on a reformed EU

Voters living in free democracy have the right to change their minds.

In the past European countries have legislated for “second” referendums on EU treaties on a number of occasions and in circumstances where voters who have initially rejected an EU treaty have then went on to subsequently vote in favour of it in a second referendum (e.g. Denmark on the Maastricht Treaty, Ireland on the Nice Treaty and Ireland again on the Lisbon Treaty)

With all of aforementioned second referendums ultimately proving successful, why do voters change their mind in these repeat referendums? Although not having personally researched the reasons why voters may have changed their minds it is not unreasonable to conclude that the benefits gained from continued EU membership was at the forefront of many, if not most, of the voters minds.

Whilst an ardent supporter and advocate of having a second vote on the UK’s membership of the EU I also recognise that if one were to be held, without having implemented the result of the first EU referendum, there could be widespread civil unrest.

Therefore, in my opinion before any vote takes place it should be incumbent on the Government to at first seek a qualified and legally binding commitment from the EU to relook at Treaty change around ‘freedom of movement’. If achieved, not only would such a pre-condition address a major concern of Brexiteers but also remove a significant risk available to the ‘No’ side and so ably used against the ‘Yes’ side in the first referrndum
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Solasch
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14-03-2019, 03:23 PM
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Re: Second EU Referendum on a reformed EU

Originally Posted by Fosterbrad ->
Voters living in free democracy have the right to change their minds.

In the past European countries have legislated for “second” referendums on EU treaties on a number of occasions and in circumstances where voters who have initially rejected an EU treaty have then went on to subsequently vote in favour of it in a second referendum (e.g. Denmark on the Maastricht Treaty, Ireland on the Nice Treaty and Ireland again on the Lisbon Treaty)

With all of aforementioned second referendums ultimately proving successful, why do voters change their mind in these repeat referendums? Although not having personally researched the reasons why voters may have changed their minds it is not unreasonable to conclude that the benefits gained from continued EU membership was at the forefront of many, if not most, of the voters minds.

Whilst an ardent supporter and advocate of having a second vote on the UK’s membership of the EU I also recognise that if one were to be held, without having implemented the result of the first EU referendum, there could be widespread civil unrest.

Therefore, in my opinion before any vote takes place it should be incumbent on the Government to at first seek a qualified and legally binding commitment from the EU to relook at Treaty change around ‘freedom of movement’. If achieved, not only would such a pre-condition address a major concern of Brexiteers but also remove a significant risk available to the ‘No’ side and so ably used against the ‘Yes’ side in the first referrndum

Freedom of movement is for inhabitants of the EU only. They can go and live/work in any of the member states. It has nothing to do with illegal immigrants. This freedom of movement of goods and persons is the fundament of the common market.

As for the movement of persons, the UK opted out of schengen, so what are you complaining about?
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Julie1962
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14-03-2019, 03:27 PM
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Re: Second EU Referendum on a reformed EU

I think you mean to say they make people vote again and again until they are cowed into voting way the EU wants them to. That's not democracy that's bullying.
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Solasch
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14-03-2019, 03:44 PM
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Re: Second EU Referendum on a reformed EU

Originally Posted by Julie1962 ->
I think you mean to say they make people vote again and again until they are cowed into voting way the EU wants them to. That's not democracy that's bullying.
From one referendum to the second, the knowledge of the voters increases. Compare to the brexit. Now, and only now, the general public is gaining knowledge about the consequences of a brexit. In a second referendum the voting will dramatically change. If you don't think so, than there is nothing to fear from a second referendum. But in your heart you know a second referendum will change everything.
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marmaduke
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14-03-2019, 03:50 PM
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Re: Second EU Referendum on a reformed EU

I would never vote again for anything
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Solasch
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14-03-2019, 04:05 PM
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Re: Second EU Referendum on a reformed EU

Originally Posted by marmaduke ->
I would never vote again for anything
That sounds like the reaction of a child that has been denied a sweet.
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swimfeeders
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14-03-2019, 04:19 PM
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Re: Second EU Referendum on a reformed EU

Hi

The position is that we leave in two weeks with or without a deal.

The EU are not moving, they have a plan, which is to protect their four freedoms and we are not moving our red lines.

The two are incompatible, there is insufficient time for a second referendum, we are where we are.

There is no point in having an extension to Brexit as neither side is prepared to move.
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marmaduke
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14-03-2019, 04:45 PM
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Re: Second EU Referendum on a reformed EU

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
That sounds like the reaction of a child that has been denied a sweet.
That sounds like someone who knows when he is wasting his time , democracy only works when the elite get the answer they require as it encourages them but to ask anyone be it for support in an election or heaven forbid another referendum then no , ‘ il leave it to you adults to continue feeding the system’
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Bread
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14-03-2019, 06:05 PM
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Re: Second EU Referendum on a reformed EU

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
Freedom of movement is for inhabitants of the EU only. They can go and live/work in any of the member states. It has nothing to do with illegal immigrants. This freedom of movement of goods and persons is the fundament of the common market.

As for the movement of persons, the UK opted out of schengen, so what are you complaining about?

Schengen is not about immigration it's about showing ID at the border.
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Fosterbrad
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14-03-2019, 06:27 PM
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Re: Second EU Referendum on a reformed EU

Quite the opposite ‘Bread’. The Schengen Agreement is a treaty which led to the creation of Europe's Schengen Area, in which internal border checks have largely been abolished. Its proposed measures intended to gradually abolish border checks at the signatories' common borders, including reduced speed vehicle checks which allowed vehicles to cross borders without stopping, allowing residents in border areas freedom to cross borders away from fixed checkpoints, and the harmonisation of visa policies
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