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The Artful Todger
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26-05-2019, 03:32 PM
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Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

From the Daily Express -- Tories have threatened oust their new Prime Minister in a Government revolt if a no-deal Brexit is forced through.

What the mustard and cress is WRONG with these people? Stupid? Arrogant? Demented? Or want to finish the job that Theresa May and her cabal started?

The public democratically voted to just GTFO of the horrid EU. The government decided they would not take note but instead use the result to plough their own furrow and the consequences are now to be seen.

The BREXIT party emerged and the results of the MEP election is the defacto second referendum that so many were whinging for. It is more than reasonable to interpret the results as an even harder and incontrovertible demand to escape from the foreign power that our sovereignty has been handed over to.

To now read that the Tory party big-hitters are threatening to depose the May replacement if he/she tries to deliver what the electorate want?

Unless Nigel relaunches the BREXIT party as the New Conservative party then we'd better get braced for a Corbyn/ Lib-Dem coalition in government.

Braced as one has to brace when told to do by a customs officer immediately prior to a cavity search.
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26-05-2019, 03:44 PM
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Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Tories have threatened oust their new Prime Minister in a Government revolt if a no-deal Brexit is forced through.
TAT firstly I take little notice of anything in the Express.

A lot will hinge on what will happen in the EU elections.
If as predicted and both the main parties lose to the Brexit Party and the Liberals in the EU elections, many MPs will be scared to trigger a general election and to risk losing their seats to the 2 new parties.
I doubt very much there will be more than a handful of Tories who revolt and it will be those who already face deselection.
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26-05-2019, 05:01 PM
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Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

We need to leave yes but we need to leave with an agreement. This pie in the sky over the rainbow leading us to the promised land WTO premise is absolutely non-sensical tripe . Most armchair Brexit warriors have obviously never run a business, particularly one that employs tens of thousands of people in "just in time" industry. What gives any of us, or any politician the right to gamble with tens of thousands of livelihoods on a completely unknown circumstance, and for no other reason than the satisfaction of sticking two fingers up to the EU?

Give me the bird in the hand anytime....
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26-05-2019, 05:25 PM
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Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Originally Posted by Barry ->
We need to leave yes but we need to leave with an agreement. This pie in the sky over the rainbow leading us to the promised land WTO premise is absolutely non-sensical tripe . Most armchair Brexit warriors have obviously never run a business, particularly one that employs tens of thousands of people in "just in time" industry. What gives any of us, or any politician the right to gamble with tens of thousands of livelihoods on a completely unknown circumstance, and for no other reason than the satisfaction of sticking two fingers up to the EU?

Give me the bird in the hand anytime....
Barry, you may well call it pie in the sky over a rainbow leading us into the promised land myth.

No-one wants a no-deal Brexit when there is the opportunity to negotiate a deal. But.... the deal cannot possibly be just in the favour of the EU and the UK becomes trapped half in, half out of the EU forever, when we were promised that we would be leaving in a clean break, that meant leaving the customs union and the single market. and that also included Northern Ireland and Gibraltar.

It has been three years of hard slog trying to negotiate with the EU morons who at every turn, have been awkward and intransigent with everything that we have asked. We have also had our own poisoned politicians trying to thwart Brexit at every opportunity.

How long do you expect this to go on? four years? five years? ten years? Enough is enough! . If they cannot be intelligent enough to know when to loosen the reins on negotiating with the UK, then walk we will. We will have no other choice, we cannot and will not be held to ransom for years by the EU, who will only ever be happy with us still pinned to them forever if we agree to their demands. either that or they expect Brexit to fail. That will never happen!

You may well insult the intelligence of posters on here not having a business mind, (very patronising but typical) but even a fool knows that in negotiations, there comes a time to just walk away. That day is very rapidly approaching.

Might I therefore respectfully suggest you vent your spleen not at the British people who have been betrayed, but rather at your friends in the EU, ditto Remain MP's, who are the root cause of this fresh threat of leaving without a deal.

The time for bullying the UK is coming to an end.



Of course it will harm Britain if we walk, but it will also harm the EU states. I don't believe they will put up with the EU's disgraceful charade for much longer.
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26-05-2019, 06:23 PM
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Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Far from venting my spleen SG, I was just putting my point of view, that it is very easy for us to say "let's just leave" , but the consequences for thousands of families and livelihoods could be catastophic and take many years to recover from. So why take that risk when there is no need?

I too voted to leave the EU and their federalist ideals, but I didn't vote to leave Europe and all of the benefits that dealing with them brings. In my opinion the withdrawal agreement, however imperfect, is a compromise that I could live with, and I'm sure thousands of businesses and their employees could too.

Contrary to what you may believe there is a different school of thought to yours that has just as much merit, but if you would rather call it "venting your spleen" rather than a valid opinion then that says more about you than me I'm afraid...
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26-05-2019, 07:14 PM
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Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

I apologise if I have caused offence Barry. Maybe "vent your spleen" was a tad too harsh for you as a nice poster.

It does tend to grate on one's nerve though when those who agree with having to walk away in the end, always have the same accusation thrown at them that they do so with not a thought of the damage it will do to the British economy, as well as those in other European countries. It's simply not true.

Most of us know that to walk away is the worst of all scenario's, but it HAS to be one of the options available to both sides, as it would in any business negotiation. You cannot possibly expect fair negotiations when one side holds all the cards and the other is expected to fall into line. Negotiations are not conducted that way in any business.

For too long the EU treated our negotiators as gullible fools, and that is because they were! Maybot's civilian advisors and civil servants were the negotiators over the future of this country, instead of those elected in her cabinet. they allowed the EU to make mincemeat out them regarding the withdrawal agreement, Is it any wonder when they were all Remainers. And is it any wonder those who should have been negotiating in her cabinet, resigned en-masse in disgust at what was going on.

No, sorry but leaving without a deal MUST be put back on the table. It is the last thing either will want but without that option, the EU will continue to laugh at us behind our backs and continue to bully us.

Enough is enough.
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26-05-2019, 07:46 PM
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Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
No, sorry but leaving without a deal MUST be put back on the table. It is the last thing either will want but without that option, the EU will continue to laugh at us behind our backs and continue to bully us.

Enough is enough.
And very right you are. It has been enough. Negotiations are over, and have been for some time. There will be no negotiations with a no deal on the table.
A no deal exit is completely up to the UK. If you chose it, so be it, but don't come blaming the EU for the consequences. These are solely your own doing.
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26-05-2019, 07:49 PM
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Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
And very right you are. It has been enough. Negotiations are over, and have been for some time. There will be no negotiations with a no deal on the table.
A no deal exit is completely up to the UK. If you chose it, so be it, but don't come blaming the EU for the consequences. These are solely your own doing.

And these consequences are ??????
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26-05-2019, 09:16 PM
9

Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

Originally Posted by Bread ->
And these consequences are ??????
All conjecture Bread!
Is the EU going to stop trading with a country that has
a 90 billion trading deficit with it, and also on top of that
a considerable membership fee to pay?
I think not! Unless they are deranged!
That our present rulers, ( include all political parties in this )
cannot see this speaks volumes for their lack of COMMON
sense!
I would prefer a trade deal, but not on any terms!

Regards Donkeyman!
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26-05-2019, 09:44 PM
10

Re: Tory party - no hard BREXIT.

I see the likes of Shammi Chakrabarti are spouting about resisting leaving with without a deal and going on to WTO rules.

It doesn't have to be a no deal, just one that is a damned sight better than the one the EU fobbed off on Mrs. May which wasn't a deal at all, it was an offer to throw us a few scraps provided that we still gave them a payment and would follow EU directives without any say in them.

If the EU stopped pissing around and put a real deal on the table then perhaps things could get settled amicably.
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