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gascony
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14-08-2019, 10:55 AM
1

no deal actually means lots of deals

The polls are vague but there is no mandate or majority for a no deal exit. What does exist is a loud minority who are very desperate to leave the EU and demand this at every turn. We see them here on this forum - lots of very active, very angry, sometimes mis-informed posting from a half dozen contributors. That is not a majority, that is just loud and angry people sounding off.
What also exists is a national fatigue over Brexit. Three years of dull debate and no conclusion is a majority view. After all this is full of issues more complex and interwoven that most can be bothered getting to grips with. I suspect this is the majority view.
But to get this concluded it will mean one of three things - either an attempt to force through the no deal exit; or some form of national re-assessment (GE or new referendum); or a new attempt at a deal for exiting.
The first means trashing parliamentary norms. My question is whether this is the best possible start point for a post EU UK? Is this the precedent that defines our so-called newly found sovereignty? And does this really do us any favours?
The second option is viewed as unattractive by many and for many reasons. It will not address the anger built up in the minds of Brexit supporters unless its a clear pro-Brexit victory. Even then the delay will not be welcome. And if its a tie or a marginal remain win - the very angry will become a long term festering sore in the UK. It will not solve the argument it will simply push it back to next time there is a vote.
The best option for resolution to what is now a national divide is an exit with a deal. But strong anti-EU Brexit fans would need to swallow some form of compromise. However, were this possible, then at least we would avoid 2-3 years of the UK desperately trying to salvage the mess with many many deals. A no-deal exit is actually a "lets put ourselves in a vulnerable position so when we do have to negotiate (and we will do, soon) we will get a patchwork of not very positive deals" exit.
So, please do continue to shout for a no deal exit. You do realise that you are (1) trashing the sovereignty that you say you want back, and (2) putting the UK in a worse negotiating position, don't you? (I know the answer btw: its 'no, I am not aware of that.')
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Donkeyman
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14-08-2019, 11:28 AM
2

Re: no deal actually means lots of deals

Originally Posted by gascony ->
The polls are vague but there is no mandate or majority for a no deal exit. What does exist is a loud minority who are very desperate to leave the EU and demand this at every turn. We see them here on this forum - lots of very active, very angry, sometimes mis-informed posting from a half dozen contributors. That is not a majority, that is just loud and angry people sounding off.
What also exists is a national fatigue over Brexit. Three years of dull debate and no conclusion is a majority view. After all this is full of issues more complex and interwoven that most can be bothered getting to grips with. I suspect this is the majority view.
But to get this concluded it will mean one of three things - either an attempt to force through the no deal exit; or some form of national re-assessment (GE or new referendum); or a new attempt at a deal for exiting.
The first means trashing parliamentary norms. My question is whether this is the best possible start point for a post EU UK? Is this the precedent that defines our so-called newly found sovereignty? And does this really do us any favours?
The second option is viewed as unattractive by many and for many reasons. It will not address the anger built up in the minds of Brexit supporters unless its a clear pro-Brexit victory. Even then the delay will not be welcome. And if its a tie or a marginal remain win - the very angry will become a long term festering sore in the UK. It will not solve the argument it will simply push it back to next time there is a vote.
The best option for resolution to what is now a national divide is an exit with a deal. But strong anti-EU Brexit fans would need to swallow some form of compromise. However, were this possible, then at least we would avoid 2-3 years of the UK desperately trying to salvage the mess with many many deals. A no-deal exit is actually a "lets put ourselves in a vulnerable position so when we do have to negotiate (and we will do, soon) we will get a patchwork of not very positive deals" exit.
So, please do continue to shout for a no deal exit. You do realise that you are (1) trashing the sovereignty that you say you want back, and (2) putting the UK in a worse negotiating position, don't you? (I know the answer btw: its 'no, I am not aware of that.')

I dont think Boris has a chance of forcing anything through
Gascony, but all will be resolved one way or another when
the inevitable GE takes vplace in the not too distant future?
Then we shall see if its just the few old geezers on OFF's
views, or the views of 17 5 M leave voters?
Just be patient, what will be, will be!

Regards Donkeyman!
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Emjay
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14-08-2019, 12:34 PM
3

Re: no deal actually means lots of deals

It seems that the rest of the world wants to deal or trade with the UK. As for a second referendum, we had one when a large majority voted for the BREXIT party last May.
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itsme
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14-08-2019, 12:53 PM
4

Re: no deal actually means lots of deals

Originally Posted by Emjay ->
It seems that the rest of the world wants to deal or trade with the UK. As for a second referendum, we had one when a large majority voted for the BREXIT party last May.

Urm, Emjay we ALREADY deal with the rest of the world. Just put the question in a search engine. What I can't get to the bottom of is what advantages there are in leaving the EU and then negotiating for some thing we already have? Doesn't make sense to me.
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14-08-2019, 12:54 PM
5

Re: no deal actually means lots of deals

Originally Posted by itsme ->
Urm, Emjay we ALREADY deal with the rest of the world. Just put the question in a search engine. What I can't get to the bottom of is what advantages there are in leaving the EU and then negotiating for some thing we already have? Doesn't make sense to me.
Thats because you don't understand how the customs union works.
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itsme
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14-08-2019, 12:56 PM
6

Re: no deal actually means lots of deals

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
I dont think Boris has a chance of forcing anything through
Gascony, but all will be resolved one way or another when
the inevitable GE takes vplace in the not too distant future?
Then we shall see if its just the few old geezers on OFF's
views, or the views of 17 5 M leave voters?
Just be patient, what will be, will be!

Regards Donkeyman!
Your forgetting the 23million that didn't vote to leave.
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Bread
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14-08-2019, 01:02 PM
7

Re: no deal actually means lots of deals

Originally Posted by itsme ->
Your forgetting the 23million that didn't vote to leave.
They didn't vote, thats why.
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Solasch
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14-08-2019, 01:45 PM
8

Re: no deal actually means lots of deals

Originally Posted by itsme ->
Your forgetting the 23million that didn't vote to leave.
And in a next referendum they might join the voting flock, and change the direction of the result. Scary!
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Bread
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14-08-2019, 01:49 PM
9

Re: no deal actually means lots of deals

Originally Posted by Solasch ->
And in a next referendum they might join the voting flock, and change the direction of the result. Scary!
and they might not.
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gascony
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14-08-2019, 02:01 PM
10

Re: no deal actually means lots of deals

So the consensus here is an imminent GE, rather than a new referendum or a crash out with no deal? What's the chances of a GE to enable a crash out on 31 Oct? Or a GE which leads to a Tory/Brexit MP majority ... and then a no deal exit?
Do we honestly believe that the EU will concede to dropping the back stop? Or maybe the Tory/Brexit majority will mean ditching the DUP and putting the UK/EU border in the Irish Sea...?
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