Join for free
Reply
Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 11 > Last »
Meg's Avatar
Meg
Supervisor
Meg is offline
Worcestershire, England
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 40,184
Meg is female  Meg has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
22-12-2019, 12:04 PM
1

'' Brexit was a distraction now Europe is facing a hellish 2020''

An interesting article from Luke McGee of CNN
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/20/e...ntl/index.html

Brexit has been a massive headache ever since the UK voted to leave in 2016. It took two prime ministers, 1274 days, three deadline extensions and two general elections for an exit deal finally to be deemed acceptable by the British Parliament.
But it also sucked up oxygen in Brussels, as the EU's diplomatic energy fixated on the single issue of having a country leave its bloc.
In that time, the EU was forced to pay less attention to other problems among its member states. Problems that present a far greater long-term threat to the European project than Brexit ever could.

For the EU is being undermined by nations within its ranks ignoring the rule of EU law, deviating from Europe's high standards on human rights and laughing in the face of freedom of expression.
The most recent example of this comes from Poland, where the country's Supreme Court had to warn the governing Law and Justice party that its proposed judicial reforms could violate European law so blatantly that it might be booted out of the EU.
The court's words might be a little dramatic. The proposed reforms, which would allow the government to punish judges for engaging in political activity, ignore the EU's requirement that courts act independently of government. But that doesn't mean Poland is going to get kicked out of the EU.
First, you cannot officially expel an EU member state. It's possible to suspend a nation's voting rights under Article 7 of the treaty of the European Union, designed to punish nations that disobey the EU's founding principles. But they are officially still a member state.

It would require unanimous agreement among the other member states to even have a vote on doing so. And no one who understands EU politics thinks there is any chance of this happening.
"Article 7 was never designed to deal with a situation where there was more than one delinquent state," says Ronan McCrea, professor of European Law at University College London.
Right now, there are several delinquent states causing havoc in Brussels. About 340 miles south of Warsaw, Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban has spent the past decade presiding over assaults on his nation's courts, academic institutions, central bank and press.
The EU has triggered Article 7 procedures against both Hungary and Poland, but both moves led nowhere.
In Malta, Prime Minister Joseph Muscat has been hounded with calls to resign for his government's alleged involvement in the murder of Daphne Caruana Galizia, a journalist who was investigating political corruption. Earlier this week, Members of the European Parliament voted by 581 to 26 in favor of a resolution to start the Article 7 process on Malta. Muscat says he will leave office next month, but denies all allegations of wrongdoing.

These are merely the most egregious examples of member states undermining the EU's core principles.
Croatia's government is under pressure for failing to reform existing laws enough to protect journalists from facing legal suits for doing their job. There are similar criticisms of tight press control in Greece and Bulgaria. Bluntly, the old continent is hurtling towards a crisis in mutual trust on values and law. And trust is arguably the central pillar of European unity and stability.
Agata Gostyńska-Jakubowska, a senior research fellow at the Centre for European Reform, explains that the "backtracking on the rule of law in any member states" creates "a challenge to the whole mutual trust. That is a founding principle for crucial projects such as the single market or justice."

The problem is that members of the EU are overseen by the European Court of Justice. National courts are expected to respect European law. McCrea explains that "the web of rules under which members states automatically recognize each others' decisions is threatened by undermining the rule of law. The EU is a very small bureaucracy. It largely depends on national judges and national civil servants to implement the law."
With so many European nations terrified at the prospect of the EU juggernaut taking a closer look at their alleged indiscretions, there is no way that as a bloc, the member states would give a green light to Brussels singling out one member. So Article 7 is a non-starter.

This is much more of a threat to the EU than Brexit. Brexit, if anything strengthened the union," says McCrea. Without Brexit to hide behind, the fragility of the union will become impossible to ignore. And right now, there is no obvious path Brussels can take that doesn't risk making everything worse. As 2020 rolls on, Europe's biggest cheeses might come to miss talking exclusively about Brexit.
A very good illustration of why we are well out of the EU mess.
Reply With Quote
realspeed
Chatterbox
realspeed is online now
South coast
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 11,139
realspeed is male  realspeed has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
22-12-2019, 12:15 PM
2

Re: '' Brexit was a distraction now Europe is facing a hellish 2020''

Quote " Europe's high standards on human rights" unquote.

Obviously the article was written by someone who is not aware of refugees should be taken in by the first "safe" country ie France. Human rights???? what about the camps around Calais, what about their human rights??? why hasn't France accepted them and given them homes and jobs as well a other EU members

No the EU sticks up its fingers to human rights, this refugee problem is ignored by most EU countries, it is only us that try and give them " human rights" over and above our own peoples needs
Reply With Quote
Bread's Avatar
Bread
Chatterbox
Bread is online now
Sudbury, United Kingdom
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 7,150
Bread is male  Bread has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
22-12-2019, 12:21 PM
3

Re: '' Brexit was a distraction now Europe is facing a hellish 2020''

Meanwhile, 1200 jobs created in Darlington from Amazon.
Reply With Quote
Savvy's Avatar
Savvy
Senior Member
Savvy is offline
United States
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 296
Savvy is male  Savvy has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
22-12-2019, 03:15 PM
4

Re: '' Brexit was a distraction now Europe is facing a hellish 2020''

From the outside, looking in, it appears to me that the whole Brexit thing is more about Nationalism and conservative control than about economic or social issues. We have the same kind of thing going on over here.

There will be a price to pay if the great Democracies continue to slip further to the right. Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. The next time around will make WWII look like a Sunday School Picnic. The hard core conservatives in the US are ready for a civil war to get rid of all the Blacks, Muslims, Hispanics and especially the liberals. They want to Make America Great again for conservative white men, and the cost in blood or fortune be damned.
Reply With Quote
Meg's Avatar
Meg
Supervisor
Meg is offline
Worcestershire, England
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 40,184
Meg is female  Meg has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
22-12-2019, 05:25 PM
5

Re: '' Brexit was a distraction now Europe is facing a hellish 2020''

Savvy leaving the EU has nothing to do with Nationalism for many of us , we are paying billions of pounds every year to belong to the EU 'club' and to be told what we can and can't do.
It wasn't like this when we joined the Common Market to trade in 1973, since then the EU has turned into a bloated money spending monster that would like to take charge of our taxes and laws to such an extent that we just become a federal state in Europe with no power at all.

Their aim is an 'ever closer union'.
Reply With Quote
Bread's Avatar
Bread
Chatterbox
Bread is online now
Sudbury, United Kingdom
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 7,150
Bread is male  Bread has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
22-12-2019, 05:27 PM
6

Re: '' Brexit was a distraction now Europe is facing a hellish 2020''

Originally Posted by Meg ->
Savvy leaving the EU has nothing to do with Nationalism for many of us , we are paying billions of pounds every year to belong to the EU 'club' and to be told what we can and can't do.
It wasn't like this when we joined the Common Market to trade in 1973, since then the EU has turned into a bloated money spending monster that would like to take charge of our taxes and laws to such an extent that we just become a federal state in Europe with no power at all.

Their aim is an 'ever closer union'.

People think that EU fans aren't nationalists. They are, they are EU nationalists.
Reply With Quote
Meg's Avatar
Meg
Supervisor
Meg is offline
Worcestershire, England
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 40,184
Meg is female  Meg has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
22-12-2019, 05:28 PM
7

Re: '' Brexit was a distraction now Europe is facing a hellish 2020''

Originally Posted by Bread ->
People think that EU fans aren't nationalists. They are, they are EU nationalists.
Exactly Bread
Reply With Quote
Bruce's Avatar
Bruce
Chatterbox
Bruce is offline
Wollongong, Australia
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,094
Bruce is male  Bruce has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
22-12-2019, 10:18 PM
8

Re: '' Brexit was a distraction now Europe is facing a hellish 2020''

Originally Posted by realspeed ->

Obviously the article was written by someone who is not aware of refugees should be taken in by the first "safe" country ie France.
You'll have to point out to us exactly where the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees says that.


Article 26 - Freedom of movement

Each Contracting State shall accord to refugees lawfully in its territory the right to choose their place of residence and to move freely within its territory subject to any regulations applicable to aliens generally in the same circumstances.
Reply With Quote
JBR's Avatar
JBR
Chatterbox
JBR is online now
Cheshire, UK
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 26,743
JBR is male  JBR has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
23-12-2019, 01:09 AM
9

Re: '' Brexit was a distraction now Europe is facing a hellish 2020''

Originally Posted by Meg ->
Savvy leaving the EU has nothing to do with Nationalism for many of us , we are paying billions of pounds every year to belong to the EU 'club' and to be told what we can and can't do.
It wasn't like this when we joined the Common Market to trade in 1973, since then the EU has turned into a bloated money spending monster that would like to take charge of our taxes and laws to such an extent that we just become a federal state in Europe with no power at all.

Their aim is an 'ever closer union'.
I completely agree.

However, Boris is saying some very encouraging things:


Attached Images File Type: jpg Image 1.jpg (56.8 KB, 7 views)
Reply With Quote
Muddy's Avatar
Muddy
Chatterbox
Muddy is offline
UK
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 27,790
Muddy is female  Muddy has posted at least 25 times and has been a member for 3 months or more 
 
23-12-2019, 03:23 AM
10

Re: '' Brexit was a distraction now Europe is facing a hellish 2020''

Originally Posted by Bruce ->
You'll have to point out to us exactly where the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees says that.


Article 26 - Freedom of movement

Each Contracting State shall accord to refugees lawfully in its territory the right to choose their place of residence and to move freely within its territory subject to any regulations applicable to aliens generally in the same circumstances.
There is no such rule saying refugees must seek asylum in the first safe country they get to. However if they were really in fear of their lives it would be a natural assumption they would be happy to do so .
Instead they risk their lives by going from eg France to the UK in small boats .
Why?
France is a free and humane country treats its refugees well .
it would seem that these are not then refugees in fear of their lives , they are economic migrants who seek a better life.
Clearly a better life is to be had in the UK.

There is such as thing as the Dublin Regulation or Removals which means that refugees can be removed back to the country they first registered as refugees.

I quote here an article from 'Free Movement'

'This piece of EU law provides broadly that where an asylum seeker has been fingerprinted in an EU Member State but then moves on to another EU Member State, the asylum seeker can be sent back to the first country to have the asylum claim processed there.

For example, if an asylum seeker reaches Italy, is fingerprinted then travels to the UK and claims asylum, pretty much the first thing the Home Office will do is take fingerprints, check them against the central Eurodac fingerprint database and then if a match is found notify the other country and send the asylum seeker back there pronto.

There is no legal duty or obligation on the asylum seeker to claim and remain in the first safe country and an asylum seeker who moves on is not breaking the law by doing so or disqualifying themselves from refugee status.
But as a matter of administration, one EU country can send the asylum seeker back to another EU country under this system.

There are currently several hundred such “Dublin removals” every year from the United Kingdom. It is a system that the UK is very happy with, but Italy and Greece rather less so.

An inevitable consequence of the type of Brexit currently being pursued by the UK Government is that the UK will be leaving the Common European Asylum System and the Dublin Regulation will cease to apply. The UK says that it would like to negotiate a similar agreement from outside the UK but the prospects of the EU agreeing to that seem extremely slim.

Brexit therefore means it will no longer be possible for the UK to remove those asylum seekers who reach the UK via EU countries.

Why not just send them to France anyway?

Because the French Government would not accept them. One country cannot simply send a person to another country without the receiving country’s permission. Other countries don’t do it to us and we don’t do it to them. It’s pretty basic.

Imagine, how would it work? If just placed on a boat, plane, train or automobile, the receiving officials would refuse to let the the person disembark or would just send them straight back to the UK. The UK would then face the same problem. Ferry terminals and airports would quickly start to fill with people caught in bureaucratic limbo. And what would be the consequences to our relationships with other countries?

UK border officials could physically take a person to the other country, perhaps, and then hand them over. But what happens when the receiving officials say “non”? Do the UK officials, um, just run away?

Intercepting dinghies in the Channel and then towing them to France likewise seems a tad impractical. Landing the occupants of the dinghies in France without French permission might well be rather frowned upon, I imagine. I cannot imagine the British Government being very happy if the French did the same to us.


In summary…

So, to sum up, there is no obligation on refugees to claim asylum in the first safe country they reach, although many in fact do. The UK receives a tiny number of refugees compared to other countries in the EU and beyond. There are multiple reasons why refugees might want to move on from refugee camps or travel to find family members or better prospects. If they do so, and would face a well founded fear of being persecuted in their home country, they are still refugees. There is a system within the EU called the Dublin system under which refugees can be sent back to their point of entry to the EU to have their asylum claims processed. But the type of Brexit being pursued by the British government means that the UK will be leaving the Dublin system when we leave the EU.'

Colin Yeo
Immigration and asylum barrister, blogger, writer and consultant at Garden Court Chambers in London and founder and editor of the Free Movement immigration law website.





   


   
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 11 > Last »

Thread Tools


© Copyright 2009, Over50sForum   Contact Us | Over 50s Forum! | Archive | Privacy Statement | Terms of Use | Top

Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.