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10-10-2020, 12:16 PM
1

Is Boris the One Blinking First?

I really wish to goodness it was Nigel in charge of the Trade talks rather than Boris. It is now being suggested that Boris is prepared to give concessions to the EU over subsidies..

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-boris-johnson

I’ve said all along that Boris has always been the weak link in Brexit and the trade negotiations. Frost is a brilliant, experienced negotiator, but he can only do as he is bid by he in charge, and if one will please excuse the crass comment, “Boris's set of b...s seem to be ever shrinking as the time gets closer!”

Why is it that even though the UK has the upper hand, it is us yet again giving way to the bullying EU. Frost is today stating that number 10 is prepared to discuss commitments on subsidy policy that go beyond conventional trade agreements. WHY????

Originally the Government’s stance was our insistence the UK’s subsidy policy should not form part of any agreement with the EU, which had been a sticking pointYet we are now hearing differently.

Remember also how Boris emphasised how we would be coming out of the Human Rights Act because of all the foreign criminals using it as a ploy to remain in the UK? Looks as though Boris has backtracked on that one already. Is he going to give way on fishing as well, even though we shouldn’t even be featuring our fishing grounds as part of the trade talks? Already talk of a 3 year transition to hand our waters back in full finality. WHY?

Now we hear that although Boris said the 15th October was the deadline, he is backtracking by saying talks will continue after that date. WHY?

I’m really beginning to despair over Boris.

How about you? Is your faith in him eroding?
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10-10-2020, 12:46 PM
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Re: Is Boris the One Blinking First?

Certain that those we elect to government are influenced by deep pocket politics.
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10-10-2020, 01:06 PM
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Re: Is Boris the One Blinking First?

Hi

Boris has already agreed to tougher Subsidy rules in the Japan FTA , so he is somewhat stuck.

What is apparent is that the EU does not believe that the UK holds all the cards.

We will have to wait and see if Boris holds to his 15th October deadline.
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10-10-2020, 01:06 PM
4

Re: Is Boris the One Blinking First?

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
I really wish to goodness it was Nigel in charge of the Trade talks rather than Boris. It is now being suggested that Boris is prepared to give concessions to the EU over subsidies..

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-boris-johnson

I’ve said all along that Boris has always been the weak link in Brexit and the trade negotiations. Frost is a brilliant, experienced negotiator, but he can only do as he is bid by he in charge, and if one will please excuse the crass comment, “Boris's set of b...s seem to be ever shrinking as the time gets closer!”

Why is it that even though the UK has the upper hand, it is us yet again giving way to the bullying EU. Frost is today stating that number 10 is prepared to discuss commitments on subsidy policy that go beyond conventional trade agreements. WHY????

Originally the Government’s stance was our insistence the UK’s subsidy policy should not form part of any agreement with the EU, which had been a sticking pointYet we are now hearing differently.

Remember also how Boris emphasised how we would be coming out of the Human Rights Act because of all the foreign criminals using it as a ploy to remain in the UK? Looks as though Boris has backtracked on that one already. Is he going to give way on fishing as well, even though we shouldn’t even be featuring our fishing grounds as part of the trade talks? Already talk of a 3 year transition to hand our waters back in full finality. WHY?

Now we hear that although Boris said the 15th October was the deadline, he is backtracking by saying talks will continue after that date. WHY?

I’m really beginning to despair over Boris.

How about you? Is your faith in him eroding?
Don't blame boris, any pm would have been forced to do the same. It is a reality based on the differences between size of EU and UK.
But you are running behind.
UK has blinked on fishing rights ten days ago https://www.theguardian.com/politics...exit-sweetener

15 october is a deadline boris has set because on that date there is an important meeting of the EU commission. However, the date for the EU to still be able to ratify a deal in europarliament is november first. Now boris has dropped his power play on that date.

On state aid, the level playing field, the UK has doubled down weeks ago. In accepting the trade deal with japan the UK accepted much more stringent conditions. https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/bre...xit-deal-96116
A deal I may add that still has to be ratifued by japan's parliament. Japan despises it when someone reneges on a treaty, like boris is doing.

Boris declared he will not change the 1998 human rights act. The act that turned the unhcr declaration of human rights in british law.

And boris has already accepted the jurisdiction of the ECJ by signing the WA and irish protocol.

He desperately wants a trade deal.
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10-10-2020, 01:16 PM
5

Re: Is Boris the One Blinking First?

Originally Posted by shropshiregirl ->
I really wish to goodness it was Nigel in charge of the Trade talks rather than Boris. It is now being suggested that Boris is prepared to give concessions to the EU over subsidies..

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-boris-johnson

I’ve said all along that Boris has always been the weak link in Brexit and the trade negotiations. Frost is a brilliant, experienced negotiator, but he can only do as he is bid by he in charge, and if one will please excuse the crass comment, “Boris's set of b...s seem to be ever shrinking as the time gets closer!”

Why is it that even though the UK has the upper hand, it is us yet again giving way to the bullying EU. Frost is today stating that number 10 is prepared to discuss commitments on subsidy policy that go beyond conventional trade agreements. WHY????

Originally the Government’s stance was our insistence the UK’s subsidy policy should not form part of any agreement with the EU, which had been a sticking pointYet we are now hearing differently.

Remember also how Boris emphasised how we would be coming out of the Human Rights Act because of all the foreign criminals using it as a ploy to remain in the UK? Looks as though Boris has backtracked on that one already. Is he going to give way on fishing as well, even though we shouldn’t even be featuring our fishing grounds as part of the trade talks? Already talk of a 3 year transition to hand our waters back in full finality. WHY?

Now we hear that although Boris said the 15th October was the deadline, he is backtracking by saying talks will continue after that date. WHY?

I’m really beginning to despair over Boris.

How about you? Is your faith in him eroding?

I have always had doubts about him SG? He got my vote because
of his promises and because l could'nt vote for Nigel in my
constituency !
He is definitely wavering now, not because of the eu though, but
because the majority of the tories are remainers ! and now the end
is in sight they are getting restless again and are causing him trouble
by trying to split the party again??
Remember at the beginning of the year Boris was untouchable due
to the huge majority he attained in the election, now they are reverting
to the disunity we suffered under the May woman
This was always the EU's biggest weapon againt us!!
I agree about Frosty, he has bee brilliant, but unless we refuse to
keep on deferring things everything he achieved will be for nowt!
I only hope Frosty is working on a plan and not just listening to
to others with different agendas?

Donkeyman! 😟😟
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10-10-2020, 01:17 PM
6

Re: Is Boris the One Blinking First?

Originally Posted by swimfeeders ->
Hi

Boris has already agreed to tougher Subsidy rules in the Japan FTA , so he is somewhat stuck.

What is apparent is that the EU does not believe that the UK holds all the cards.

We will have to wait and see if Boris holds to his 15th October deadline.
If boris was used to keeping his deadlines, he would be found dead in a ditch last year, remember his statement about the 31 october deadline? https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-49601128


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10-10-2020, 04:33 PM
7

Re: Is Boris the One Blinking First?

If you consider the nuances in the language in the statement "Frost is today stating that number 10 is prepared to discuss commitments on subsidy policy that go beyond conventional trade agreements" is not the same as saying that number 10 is ready to make commitments. Far from it, it suggests to me that Lord Frost is keeping the negotiating door open until the very last minute.

It has also been mooted that both Frost and Barnier are preparing to go No Deal and then work on a number of so-called "mini-trade deals" rather than one "overarching" trade deal. If, as the press has already stated, a number of these are already sorted out, then come Jan 1st, it's just a matter of getting these signed off and ratified, etc.
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10-10-2020, 05:28 PM
8

Re: Is Boris the One Blinking First?

Originally Posted by Percy Vere ->
If you consider the nuances in the language in the statement "Frost is today stating that number 10 is prepared to discuss commitments on subsidy policy that go beyond conventional trade agreements" is not the same as saying that number 10 is ready to make commitments. Far from it, it suggests to me that Lord Frost is keeping the negotiating door open until the very last minute.

It has also been mooted that both Frost and Barnier are preparing to go No Deal and then work on a number of so-called "mini-trade deals" rather than one "overarching" trade deal. If, as the press has already stated, a number of these are already sorted out, then come Jan 1st, it's just a matter of getting these signed off and ratified, etc.
Regarding your last paragraph Percy, l always thought that was the
way it would go?
We would leave without a deal , then the different countries would
apply to make their own deals to suit themselves as and when they
wanted? If they found not selling to us affected their economics
then they could offer their produce to us for sale and we could take
them or leave hem?Just like normal business is done??
But this obviously, makes the commission redundant doesnt it ??
Maybe thats what all this is about really??

Donkeyman! 🤔🤔🤔
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10-10-2020, 05:52 PM
9

Re: Is Boris the One Blinking First?

https://medium.com/@UnlockDemocracy/...n-c9c8285532cd

dated 2017

At the end of the day if you’re filthy rich then you can simply go for broke and buy a political party, as there’s no limit on individual donations. When a party becomes increasingly reliant on generous donations they have little choice but to make sure their donors are happy. Like Stuart Wheeler (who once gave £5 million to the Conservative Party) says, a donor’s ability to influence their party is “absolutely natural and unobjectionable”.

Public funding of political parties put them on a level playing field. We need to have an honest conversation about what form public funding of political parties should take, and how this could be used to best promote democracy. Schemes to match small individual donations could be devised to encourage parties to seek broad grassroots support, not just pander to powerful interests.
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10-10-2020, 08:16 PM
10

Re: Is Boris the One Blinking First?

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
I have always had doubts about him SG? He got my vote because
of his promises and because l could'nt vote for Nigel in my
constituency !

He is definitely wavering now, not because of the eu though, but
because the majority of the tories are remainers ! and now the end
is in sight they are getting restless again and are causing him trouble
by trying to split the party again??
Remember at the beginning of the year Boris was untouchable due
to the huge majority he attained in the election, now they are reverting
to the disunity we suffered under the May woman
This was always the EU's biggest weapon againt us!!
I agree about Frosty, he has bee brilliant, but unless we refuse to
keep on deferring things everything he achieved will be for nowt!
I only hope Frosty is working on a plan and not just listening to
to others with different agendas?
I fully agree.

If Boris does give in at the last minute, he's going to lose votes. Just how many is anybody's guess, but if Nigel sticks to his word and stands his party at the next GE, or even before, he will certainly have my vote.

All we can do is to keep pushing and hoping.

As I've said before, I hope beyond hope that enough of our voters grow some balls and manage to give in to their usual Labour/Conservative beliefs. Pendulum politics has been holding us back for far too many years now.

The emergence of a new political party is certainly not beyond the realms of possibility either. It happened a little over a hundred years ago when the Labour party overtook the Liberals as the second major party and then actually formed the next government.

If that can happen due to overwhelming public support, it could happen again if the Tories fail to do what the majority of the electorate wants. I just hope that enough of us have the will and trust to do it.
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