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Donkeyman
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04-02-2021, 01:39 AM
1

Bad deal for fishing !!

Speaking for government, George Eustace says we didn't get all that
we wanted for fishing due to last minute negotiations and gave the
usual explanation that fishing is only a very small part of UKs
economy??
We knew that allready didn't we??

Donkeyman! 👎👎👎
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04-02-2021, 08:52 AM
2

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
Speaking for government, George Eustace says we didn't get all that
we wanted for fishing due to last minute negotiations and gave the
usual explanation that fishing is only a very small part of UKs
economy??
We knew that allready didn't we??

Donkeyman! 👎👎👎

Yes.

Still waiting to see what the government will do about super trawlers etc

Not looking good so far
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04-02-2021, 11:33 AM
3

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Bread ->
Yes.

Still waiting to see what the government will do about super trawlers etc

Not looking good so far
Boris is swayed by financials hoping for equivalence !!
Will EU grant it?
Not very likely, why should they encourage UK to make a success of
brexit??
Therefore no point in hanging on for equivalence ? Just assert
ourselves as a sovereign state by enforcing our rules over our
coastal waters and also our section of the North sea as provided
for by international treaties !!
Boris made a blunder by rushing through a last minute deal which
he hadn't thought through ??
He can still put things right by invoking the cancellation clause
that EU so kindly included in the "deal" ??

Donkeyman! 👎👎👎
!
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04-02-2021, 12:00 PM
4

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

I don't think it is so much that there was any blunder but rather that the alternative at that time was likely to be far more costly overall.

Take this hoo-hah over fresh bivalve shellfish exports for example: what is the total value to the UK of these?
Anybody?
One trade bod says it's worth around £20 million per year so while I accept that British producers/suppliers might well suffer it's hardly a huge sum.
Not to mention that the intended markets in the EU and their consumers won't be getting what they want either; there's a reason we exported so much and that is because nowhere else could.
So nobody wins.

From the day we decided to leave the EU we knew that there would be changes, no matter how we would have eventually left.
At least this way the fishing industry has some opportunities which we might well not have otherwise had, because it's quite obvious by now that the EU would probably rather have prevented all imports into the EU out of sheer spite in the event of no deal.
Our fishermen wouldn't have been happy at that either.


It's going to take a long time to adjust, for all of us including those EU consumers who can't buy their fresh lobsters or eat their Paella any more.
We're in the early stages of adapting to this change.
Let's see how things progress before deciding whether overall it is worthy of either praise or condemnation.
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04-02-2021, 12:15 PM
5

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Donkeyman ->
Boris is swayed by financials hoping for equivalence !!
Will EU grant it?
Not very likely, why should they encourage UK to make a success of
brexit??
Therefore no point in hanging on for equivalence ? Just assert
ourselves as a sovereign state by enforcing our rules over our
coastal waters and also our section of the North sea as provided
for by international treaties !!
Boris made a blunder by rushing through a last minute deal which
he hadn't thought through ??
He can still put things right by invoking the cancellation clause
that EU so kindly included in the "deal" ??

Donkeyman! 👎👎👎
!

If the UK doesn't work on an equivalence basis it would be the end of the Euro.

If I was Boris now, I would accept tarrifs and rip up the trade deal. Its worthless as it does not give businesses any certainty as we have found out over the past few weeks.
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04-02-2021, 12:17 PM
6

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
I don't think it is so much that there was any blunder but rather that the alternative at that time was likely to be far more costly overall.

Take this hoo-hah over fresh bivalve shellfish exports for example: what is the total value to the UK of these?
Anybody?
One trade bod says it's worth around £20 million per year so while I accept that British producers/suppliers might well suffer it's hardly a huge sum.
Not to mention that the intended markets in the EU and their consumers won't be getting what they want either; there's a reason we exported so much and that is because nowhere else could.
So nobody wins.

From the day we decided to leave the EU we knew that there would be changes, no matter how we would have eventually left.
At least this way the fishing industry has some opportunities which we might well not have otherwise had, because it's quite obvious by now that the EU would probably rather have prevented all imports into the EU out of sheer spite in the event of no deal.
Our fishermen wouldn't have been happy at that either.


It's going to take a long time to adjust, for all of us including those EU consumers who can't buy their fresh lobsters or eat their Paella any more.
We're in the early stages of adapting to this change.
Let's see how things progress before deciding whether overall it is worthy of either praise or condemnation.

Zaphod, your selling out family run businesses to the EU. The answer is to invest more into them rather than throw them under the bus.

The answer is to enable these small shellfish businesses to export to the rest of the world by investing in them and promoting them within the UK to build much larger domestic market.
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04-02-2021, 12:42 PM
7

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Bread ->
Zaphod, your selling out family run businesses to the EU. The answer is to invest more into them rather than throw them under the bus.

The answer is to enable these small shellfish businesses to export to the rest of the world by investing in them and promoting them within the UK to build much larger domestic market.
I'm not selling them out at all, just explaining things as I see it.

They're certainly not being sold out to the EU because firstly they don't have an alternative supply in the case of the bivalves I discussed and secondly because it is EU consumers and processors that also suffer from the lack of supply.

I agree about exporting to the rest of the world - if there is a market, people will buy I suppose although how you transport live produce around the world must be problematic.
And I've said before about promoting within the UK, giving as an example that although I live right on the coast I cannot buy a fresh British crab or lobster no matter how much cash I offer.

It's sad for those whose livelihoods are under threat, I absolutely agree.
But they've had over four years to prepare for inevitable change and seem to have done nothing, or at best very little.
AIUI these bivalves for example could still be sold and exported to the EU if they were purified here in the UK, but nobody was prepared to comit to buying the necessary purification equipment.

Not only that but changes like this have happened many, many times before - my father saw the textile industry he was part of collapse almost completely with the machinery all being sold to overseas buyers who then, as we know, began exporting the clothing made on these machines back to us here in the UK.
There are many such examples of how our industries have undergone significant change.

It isn't ideal.
We all know that.
But after voting to leave we should all have known that nothing which followed ever would be ideal.
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04-02-2021, 01:00 PM
8

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Zaphod ->
I'm not selling them out at all, just explaining things as I see it.

They're certainly not being sold out to the EU because firstly they don't have an alternative supply in the case of the bivalves I discussed and secondly because it is EU consumers and processors that also suffer from the lack of supply.

I agree about exporting to the rest of the world - if there is a market, people will buy I suppose although how you transport live produce around the world must be problematic.
And I've said before about promoting within the UK, giving as an example that although I live right on the coast I cannot buy a fresh British crab or lobster no matter how much cash I offer.

It's sad for those whose livelihoods are under threat, I absolutely agree.
But they've had over four years to prepare for inevitable change and seem to have done nothing, or at best very little.
AIUI these bivalves for example could still be sold and exported to the EU if they were purified here in the UK, but nobody was prepared to comit to buying the necessary purification equipment.

Not only that but changes like this have happened many, many times before - my father saw the textile industry he was part of collapse almost completely with the machinery all being sold to overseas buyers who then, as we know, began exporting the clothing made on these machines back to us here in the UK.
There are many such examples of how our industries have undergone significant change.

It isn't ideal.
We all know that.
But after voting to leave we should all have known that nothing which followed ever would be ideal.

Destroy the UK shellfish industry and you hand it to France, where once again we will be buying our own stocks from the EU. The bivalve shellfish include our mussel beds which we have huge markets for in the EU - but because they are blocking the UK imports to the EU the whole industry is at risk, family businesses that have been going for years, the same with scallops, which we cannot catch in French waters giving the entire season to the French, because the biggest market for them is, once again the EU.

We should put a blanket ban on supertrawlers and every vessel over 25m in length, then ban everything that does not return to a UK port for off loading and processing.

Start there.
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Percy Vere
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04-02-2021, 02:03 PM
9

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Just a few days ago, Jersey joined Guernsey in signing a deal with the French regarding access to their fishing waters. I can see in a few months times, these islands regretting their actions because the French will have taken everything there is to be taken.
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04-02-2021, 02:33 PM
10

Re: Bad deal for fishing !!

Originally Posted by Bread ->
Destroy the UK shellfish industry and you hand it to France, where once again we will be buying our own stocks from the EU.
That is simply wrong and makes no sense.

Firstly because what we produce ourselves we can surely buy ourselves if the appetite for it is there; if we're not buying from the EU now (we were exporting remember, not importing) then why would we buy in the future?
Secondly (again remembering that we were exporting) how on earth are France (or indeed anyone else) going to be handed Welsh or Scottish produce that can only legally be caught by British vessels in British waters?
They aren't, as I'm sure you can understand.

Originally Posted by Bread ->
The bivalve shellfish include our mussel beds which we have huge markets for in the EU - but because they are blocking the UK imports to the EU the whole industry is at risk, family businesses that have been going for years, the same with scallops, which we cannot catch in French waters giving the entire season to the French, because the biggest market for them is, once again the EU.
Re: the bolded bit - it looks like you're completely missing the point.
The EU cannot get fresh quantities of this anywhere else (as you correctly point out, they are ours) so EU processors and consumers suffer because there is nothing for them to process or to buy.
I've posted evidence of this before & frankly CBA to hunt if nobody's going to bother reading it or accepting it.
The French couldn't meet demand in the past and they certainly can't now; a few miserable scallops alone do not make up for the huge diversity of produce which we used to export to them and which can only come from our own waters.
Again it is the EU's processors and consumers suffering too.


Originally Posted by Bread ->
We should put a blanket ban on supertrawlers and every vessel over 25m in length, then ban everything that does not return to a UK port for off loading and processing.

Start there.
We started with the deal agreed in December.

We could all contemplate a huge variety of options with varying degrees of likelihood and possibility.
I will politely suggest that instead of looking at one area and digging your heels in prematurely you consider the broader picture as well as the fact that governmental discussion and planning relating to all things fishing-related is ongoing.
 
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