Re: A German Point Of View

The mention of Brexit & immigration in the same sentence is always made to sound as though we object to French, German and Italians coming here. We all know that this not the case.

Re: A German Point Of View

I have a feeling many remainers say it in italics "immigration" meaning racists, that was said many times around the referendum.

Re: A German Point Of View

Thanky you for your reactions. I can't answer each one in detail. So I pick up some arguments and statements in this one reply.

Someone said that the UK did not fight two big wars for its freedom to loose ist now to the EU. I always was very interested in history and say to this: The UK faught for freedom in WWII, and not only for their own freedom but for the freedom of Europe. Almost all today living Europeans are very thankful for that and I personally feel deepest admiration for Winston Churchill. But sorry, your ancestors did not fight for freedom in WWI, although the leaders said it would be that way. The leaders of all nations said so. But in WWI all the people of all the nations faught and suffered and died in fact only for the inability and childish gambling addiction of the leaders. WWI was the big european catastrophe that should have never happened and predetermined the european development for almost the whole century. It was the beginnig of the descent of Europe while other powers grew up and gained much control over Europe. Before some european nations where big players, no none of them is that any more. But together we are a big player. And on the long run only big players will be able to defend their freedom. Together we stand, devided we fall.

Some of you feel a loss of freedom because of the rising influence of the EU. It's true of course, you loose some british freedom. Like Wales or Scotia loose some local freedom to the gouvernment of the UK. But the british will is a part of the process that determines what the EU does or does not. You won't find all your wishes fulfilled finally, but you can influence the situation of the EU strongly and are free among other free partners with whom you must find arrangements. And if you don't like the status of the EU today, well, go on and try to change it. But don't walk away.

Because the EU is the keeper of the freedom you can possibly have. Outside the EU you will feel and have more freedom, but only for a short time. On the long run you will loose independence first and freedom afterwards. You will become a playball of the big players while the EU can defend you from that.

There is a very good and very actual example. Probably most of you never heard about "North Steam2". This is a pipeline project from Russia to Germany through the Baltic Sea to provide the middle of Europe with russian gas. It is in construction by Russia, Germany, Sweden, Denmark and Switzerland. Normaly one should say that these nations may build a pipeline in their region if they want to do so. But Donald Trump is against this project. Well, he may be against it, who cares? But he aggressively tries to stop it. This shall be done with the economical weapon. The US threaten involved companies with sanctions if they go on. And those companies need the big american market. So Trump might have success in the end although the EU tries to defend this.

For me it is hard to believe that the US president wants to rule Europe, this is quite a new style of policy. It shows how vulnerable the little european states can be. Exaggerated I think that one day this president or another one tells the british people that they shall drink no more guiness in the pubs but Coca Cola and american Whiskey. What I mean: Before WWI military and political leaders had no idea what modern warfare with mashine guns and gas and first tanks and artillery giants means in reality. And today many leaders don't realize what a powerful weapon economy will be in our days.

China works more silent but will use its power more and more in future. And after China India might become the next big global player. So Europe becomes smaller and smaller and weaker. But united we are at eye level with the US and rising China. With the big european market we can answer sanctions with sanctions that hurt the aggressor as well.

Devided we will be helpless while the big players play the european nations agianst each other.

That's why Donald Trump hates the EU. And he would like to see it falling. Ever heard about Breitbard and Steve Bannon? They want to destroy the EU and promote european nationalism for that goal. In fact we have economical war like never before and the EU is under heavy attack. The Brexit is the first lost battle. One or two more losses like that and Europe ends again as the main victom of a modern war, fragmented, economical destroyed and absolutely weak. The 21. century would begin like the 20. century did, bad history repeating itself.

I believe the EU is our last hope and chance.

Some of you worry about your net payments to the EU. Germany is a net payer as well. But I think it's o.k. Every Penny you pay you will get back, but it is not so visable. You get it back with the growing european economy. We must develop the lower developed regions. The highly developed regions must pay for this but later have good trade with the then better developed regions. It's a win-win-situation.

And some of you said the Brexit would be forever while I said it would only be for ten or twenty vears. I think the Brexit will only be forever if the EU should perish, what I strongly don't hope. But if the EU continiues the UK will surely come back.

It's logical. Here it is said that the majority of the british youth is against the Brexit. Nationalism and isolationism are more common among older people. It's the same in Germany. So it is a dying spirit. It's yesterday, but still breathing. But what time must bring is: The older people die sooner and the younger people live longer. So what will be the majority soon? Here in Germany it was spread that already now the majority of the british people would not vote for the Brexit any more. Maybe that's true, maybe not. But in some years it will be true.

And some mentioned the "AFD" in Germany. They actualy win about up to 15% of the voters, more in the former East, less in the former West. But statistics say: Their voters have a high proportion of older people. And of less educated people. The AFD will not rise much more. First they had success because many Germans somehow loved the German Mark which was lost to the Euro. Well, some people still want their German Mark back. But this is stupid. And then they had a second wave of succes with the coming of many, many immigrants, especially arabic immigrants, many from Syria. Hm. This really caused some problems here. They have such a different culture and way of Life. Many young arabic people walk around with knifes and sometimes use them. They show only few respect to women. And they are organized in big clans, build criminal gangs and when you have a problem with two or three of them 15 minutes later you face hundred they called by smartphone. This caused a second wave of success for the right winged AFD. But I know the people here. The vast majority is unattainable for very right winged policy. And every right winged movement dissapeared after a while. Some people just use them to show protest and come to sense a little later.

A German Exit is not on the agenda. We know how weak we will be just on our own. Well, most of us know.

Re: A German Point Of View

And your saying we should stay ? That we will wish to rejoin?



https://youtu.be/g31X6xRotf0

Re: A German Point Of View

I wish you were right but unfortunately the animosity extends to all Europeans as my wife will attest to.

Re: A German Point Of View

Then perhaps they should look further than the end of their nose?
My wife is Slovak and feels no animosity at all - in fact she voted Brexit.

Nobody dislikes Europeans, or is simply anti "johnny foreigner" per se it was just the sheer number coming here.

Re: A German Point Of View

Well our pm proved this evening as many have been saying for over two years ( can you believe she has spent over two years to come up with the worse deal ever?!) we should be preparing for a no deal brexit .... and now hopefully that is what will happen in March .... or will the snivelling little self serving **** now get a we can’t have no deal ( despite that actually being what the people voted for !!!!) and end brexit dead ..... now quite where that puts everyone is anyone’s guess however no brexit , no leaving will rip this country , end any faith whatsoever in our elected representatives /civil service and possibly anything from a national strike to street violence the likes never seen before in this country but when /should it all kick off then no one can say the government , indeed EVERY POLITICIAN has had every possible opportunity to deliver what the people voted for and they have failed failed failed .... into unchartered waters we sail but I think Corbins wish for a general election will give the great unwashed a chance to vote , thank, give opinion on ‘their’ official and I hope many will lose their seats in the process

Re: A German Point Of View

What these idiots in power fail to realise, is that not everyone posts on forums, calls radio stations or uses social media.

Most people I've spoken to 1 to 1, have said that if Brexit is scuppered / cancelled - they will take to the streets. Not only that, they are prepared to be violent.
I made the case that violence is no answer and cannot be condoned.
Their answer is that the establishment don't listen to peaceful protests, newspaper comments, radio comments etc. They simply don't care what the great unwashed think. Therefore, all they are left with is possible violent protests to make the point.

Re: A German Point Of View

I'd like to reiterate that I am happy for anyone to come here, regardless of their nationality, regardless of whether from the EU or the wider world, providing they are people whom we need and want.

Re: A German Point Of View

Which is what too many people are too thick to understand.