Re: Crufts

That's a bit heartless

Re: Crufts

taken from Clumsey' post
Well we got our little female, this was Bubbles, she was the runt of the litter and obviously was not going to make show status, she also had, as we found out soon after, mediating luxatory patilla and her little back leg wobbled all over the place. We paid a lot of money for her and we loved her to bits. Again the seller registered her with the Kennel Club, we were not interested in this but evidently it's what had to be done. When the Kennel Club pedigree papers arrived on the bottom of the certificate of ownership (us) was printed "Not to be bred from". We had no intention of breeding but I was curious so I phoned the woman we bought the first one from and she told us that breeders of pedigree show dogs can and often do this when selling puppies. Evidently all down to professional jealousy again, they don't want one of their own line competing and maybe winning against them. Would I ever want to compete in a professional dog show for money or prestige..........

In response to your post Clumsey and the bits in bold, when a breeder endorses a puppies registration with "not to be bred from" it is not because of professional jealousies. You say your pup was "obviously not going to make show status" and if the puppy was judged by the breeder to be of "pet quality" this would be a sound reason for endorsing the registration, especially with luxating patella problems which can be hereditary. Responsible breeders will frequently endorse registrations in an effort to protect a bitch from possible exploitation and being speculatively bred from by someone who may only be motivated to do it for money. It is also done to protect the reputation/kennel/breed line of the breeder, but the endorsement can be lifted if the bitch proves to be an asset to the breed line and the breeder agrees to a mating. Many breeders will do this after a bitch has been successfully shown and can add something positive to the breed/line and they very often can help choosing a suitable sire for the puppies and can be a great source of knowledge, help and support. Good breeders - responsible breeders - try (as far as they practically can) to ensure the welfare of the puppies they breed (and also the potential progeny of those puppies) They don't want them to end up in unhappy circumstances, e.g. in the hands of unscrupulous breeders or worse puppy mills.

Re: Crufts

The breeder of our little Pom didn´t mention the leg problem to us Aeroler, although very obviously she knew about it, neither did she mention to us about not breeding her, but she did charge us a huge price, not one mention of anything else, just money.

Here is another one who is currently in the news re Crufts.

https://www.care2.com/news/member/950268163/3858717

Re: Crufts

The breeder should have discussed both things with you Clumsy. Not everyone behaves as they should - some practices leave a lot to be desired. Dog shows are very competitive and I don't particularly care for them, particularly the large ones. Crufts does appear to be a circus (see other thread). Sometimes the dogs seem to be commodities and people are far too interested in winning - but then the winners at Crufts can make a lot of money from their dogs. Hopefully the man in your link will be investigated and dealt with.

Re: Crufts

When you talk about money and humans in the same sentance you basically sum up the problem.

A licence system should be mandatory for breeders with severe penalties for non compliance. There are too many breeders now.

Re: Crufts

[QUOTE=clumsy;623614]The breeder of our little Pom didn´t mention the leg problem to us Aeroler, although very obviously she knew about it, neither did she mention to us about not breeding her, but she did charge us a huge price, not one mention of anything else, just money.

Here is another one who is currently in the news re Crufts.




I'm afraid your breeder did wrong them clumsy. To my knowledge, the breeder has to put it in writing about any 'Endorsements.'
Pups I have bred in the past always had 'endorsements' put on their paperwork. I did it to stop them being bred from inappropriately and without my knowledge or consent.
For me to give my consent and apply to the KC for an Endorsement to be lifted, the dog would need to pass the appropriate health tests and send me a copy of their Certificate with the results. It's nothing whatever to do with showing, its because I am passionate about only healthy dogs being bred from, and by responsible owners only.
If more people bothered to do this, it would stop a lot of hereditary illness being passed on to the next generation.

When a puppy leaves home, I print a 'Notice of Endorsements', draw the new owners attention to it, plus explain it verbally. Then they have to sign it to say I have told them about it, and they accept the conditions. We then have a copy each to keep.
As far as I know, if a breeder does not do this, they are in the wrong, and the buyer can use it as grounds for the KC to lift the endorsement without the breeders consent.

Re: Crufts

Thanks for that information Mups. We had no intention of breeding, and no doubt we could have returned little Bubbles and got our money back had we pushed for that, but we would never have done that, we loved her from the minute we got her, not perfect or not, she was perfect to us. I would be no good breeding any dog because I would never part with the puppies, but I do know of people who sell their prize winning dogs and also people who sell their dogs when they stop winning prizes. I could never do that, it would break my heart. Funnily enough I have just looked at ChoCho´s Spanish pedigree, I only looked at it for the first time a few days ago, it was still in the envelope seven and a half years after getting her, shows you how interested we were in the pedigree, but it was interesting to see the mum and dad´s names. dad was Pocholo and mum Puba. All these years and we never knew. More important to us is keeping her vaccinations up to date on her pets passport.

Re: Crufts

Lets just add that its not just pedigree breeders that sell pups and dogs after they stop producing.
I dont want to be bashing pedigree breeders.

A neighbour of mine did exactly that. She bought two pups and bred them as soon as the first season came along,she sold the pups and rubbed her hands with joy at her little money making machine... As the dog entered its second season she mated them again but only one pup resulted from that mating . She sold the pup and a couple of months later both dogs were gone too..

Re: Crufts

This one precisely why I had breeding restrictions put on the pups paperwork. It's nothing whatever, to do with 'rivals' breeding as was suggested earlier, its to do with trying to do my bit to stop irresponsible breeding from idiots like your neighbours.
Also, your neighbour must have been breeding without any legitimate paperwork too. You are not allowed to breed from a bitch so young, and the KC would have refused to register the litter. They are also not allowed to breed a bitch every season either.
Unfortunately, Endorsements cannot stop anyone actually breeding, but any resulting puppies are refused registration.

At least, in some ways, getting the paperwork is important when buying a puppy, because it makes everything traceable.
Having said that, some really unscrupulous 'breeders' forge papers anyway! I knew someone not far from here, who was doing that all the time. She was charging extra money for 'registered' puppies, that were not registered at all. All the paperwork was fictitious! I reported her to the KC because it was fraud, and she was abusing her dogs in other ways as well. They didn't want to know!!

Re: Crufts

quote....All the paperwork was fictitious! I reported her to the KC because it was fraud, and she was abusing her dogs in other ways as well. They didn't want to know!! .....unquote

That is awful Mups but I can´t pretend to be very surprised. Re the rivalry with the owners of show dogs, it was the woman we bought our first Pom from that told us about this. This woman was very well known and respected in the show world and she told us that she never let her dogs out of her sight. Her dogs lived in the house with the family and they also had a big motor home so that all the dogs went on holiday with them. She told us that there were people in the show world who would think nothing of paying someone to steal a winning dog or puppies, and I can quite believe it.
Showing dogs is definitely not for me.