13-11-2016, 02:30 PM
71
Re: And Still They Try To Thwart Democracy!!
Originally Posted by JBR
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And then when the EU collapses?And whether or not, I'd still prefer our independence without EU rules of who we can and cannot admit to our own country, regardless of whether foreign countries want to move their head offices to Europe.
I don't think the EU will collapse, it will change , most certainly.
I voted out simply because of the unelected Elite ruling us and Merkel just stupidly opening the flood gates without any discussion at all.
To be honest, I could not give two hoots about free movement, fundamentally our Immigration problem is our own stupid fault.
600,000 Illegals here, out they go, our fault we don't.
We have more Immigrants every year from outside the EU than we do from the EU.
Cut them by 50% now, again, nothing to do with the EU at all.
Last, but not least, EU Immigration.
Change our Benefits system along the lines of that in France and Germany,
You don't get out until you have paid in, we do not send Child Benefit abroad, it is only paid to those children who live here,
Next, link NHS Managers pay to the amount they recover from EU and non EU use,, that is a few billion more into the NHS.
13-11-2016, 03:23 PM
72
Re: And Still They Try To Thwart Democracy!!
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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HiI don't think the EU will collapse, it will change , most certainly.
I voted out simply because of the unelected Elite ruling us and Merkel just stupidly opening the flood gates without any discussion at all.
To be honest, I could not give two hoots about free movement, fundamentally our Immigration problem is our own stupid fault.
600,000 Illegals here, out they go, our fault we don't.
We have more Immigrants every year from outside the EU than we do from the EU.
Cut them by 50% now, again, nothing to do with the EU at all.
Last, but not least, EU Immigration.
Change our Benefits system along the lines of that in France and Germany,
You don't get out until you have paid in, we do not send Child Benefit abroad, it is only paid to those children who live here,
Next, link NHS Managers pay to the amount they recover from EU and non EU use,, that is a few billion more into the NHS.
Apart from that, I agree with all of your suggestions. As you so rightly say, many of our problems are of our own making and could, with the right people in charge, be easily sorted.
13-11-2016, 05:06 PM
73
Re: And Still They Try To Thwart Democracy!!
Originally Posted by swimfeeders
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We are doing well at the moment , we are still in the EU and the £ has slumped, so our exports are cheaper, however costs are going up because imports are dearer.
In short, a currency that is controlled by government rather than being controlled by fraudulent bankers who currently have the power to print the bank notes and charge the country significant fees for doing so. This is where the debt comes from.
Sever the link to those banksters, bring back a national currency, and our debts will swiftly reduce.
The US had this back in the days of the Colonial Scrip notes. They prospered because the currency was there to support the country, the businesses and trade. It could not be abused and the printing of new notes was tightly controlled. The banksters seeing how that was a total threat to their wealth and power quickly put an end to it and outlawed it.
To this day we are still in the clutches of those fraudulent bankers and power-mongers. This has to be tackled once and for all, and legislation put in place to ensure it can never again happen. Problem is all these power-mongering criminals are embedded in the masonic and Illuminati collective whose members are ensconced in every facet of society. There needs to be a very brave government willing to make the necessary changes, a government who will not be bribed, cajoled or extorted. A government who will do the right thing for Britain.
The History Of The Money Changers
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so...lbanking26.htm
13-11-2016, 05:16 PM
74
Re: And Still They Try To Thwart Democracy!!
I'm confused. Realist says there is no Constitution - only an "unwritten" one.
Originally Posted by Realist
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The UK does not have a written constitution but the fundamentals, the very back-bone of the "un-written" constitution have been the Common Law, Magna Carta, The Declaration of Right, and the Bill of Rights........
and what dire consequences should follow !?
I would think it would be a bit hard to successfully prosecute a breach of an unwritten 'law' ?
13-11-2016, 05:26 PM
75
Re: And Still They Try To Thwart Democracy!!
Originally Posted by Pumicestone
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I'm confused. Realist says there is no Constitution - only an "unwritten" one.He than goes on, at great length, claiming that the Constitution has been breached - and what dire consequences should follow !?
I would think it would be a bit hard to prosecute a breach of an unwritten 'law' ?
13-11-2016, 05:39 PM
76
Re: And Still They Try To Thwart Democracy!!
Err...reread the OP please.and may I say one reporter does not override constitutional law.
The govt has told you a lot of thing but has NOT told you even more.
And in law, referendums are advisory, not mandatory.
Democratic decision assume knowledge.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/co...ommittee/role/
there are a LOT of things you have not been told.
13-11-2016, 05:43 PM
77
Re: And Still They Try To Thwart Democracy!!
Originally Posted by Pumicestone
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I'm confused. Realist says there is no Constitution - only an "unwritten" one.He than goes on, at great length, claiming that the Constitution has been breached - and what dire consequences should follow !?
I would think it would be a bit hard to successfully prosecute a breach of an unwritten 'law' ?
Plus adoption of human rights legislation, democratic procedure and is based primarily in la set out about 500 year ago in the wake of the Civil War and which has stood as the primary test of defining British law.
13-11-2016, 05:50 PM
78
Re: And Still They Try To Thwart Democracy!!
Originally Posted by Flicker
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The British constitution consists of a body of law that stands as precedence.Plus adoption of human rights legislation, democratic procedure and is based primarily in la set out about 500 year ago in the wake of the Civil War and which has stood as the primary test of defining British law.
Originally Posted by Pumicestone
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I'm confused. Realist says there is no Constitution - only an "unwritten" one.He than goes on, at great length, claiming that the Constitution has been breached - and what dire consequences should follow !?
I would think it would be a bit hard to successfully prosecute a breach of an unwritten 'law' ?
Not the PM, not the Cabinet. It overrules referendums and the VOICE OF THE PEOPLE in representative democracy is supreme. That principle is laid down since the end of the Civil War.
"There are a number of associated characteristics of Britain’s unwritten constitution, a cardinal one being that in law Parliament is sovereign in the sense of being the supreme legislative body. Since there is no documentary constitution containing laws that are fundamental in status and superior to ordinary Acts of Parliament, the courts may only interpret parliamentary statutes. They may not overrule or declare them invalid for being contrary to the constitution and ‘unconstitutional’. So, too, there are no entrenched procedures (such as a special power of the House of Lords, or the requirement of a referendum) by which the unwritten constitution may be amended. The legislative process by which a constitutional law is repealed, amended or enacted, even one dealing with a matter of fundamental political importance, is similar in kind to any other Act of Parliament, however trivial its subject matter. - See more at: https://www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articl....XSk8vajw.dpuf
13-11-2016, 06:09 PM
80
Re: And Still They Try To Thwart Democracy!!
Originally Posted by Realist
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The UK does not have a written constitution but the fundamentals, the very back-bone of the "un-written" constitution have been the Common Law, Magna Carta, The Declaration of Right, and the Bill of Rights.Many many . . . . many people have fought and died to uphold and preserve those freedoms and basic rights.
How then can it be possible for a government, for ANY government, to ever create and pass laws/bills that eradicate that most basic un-written constitution?
Those who have done so, without the will of the people, without offering them a single vote, a referendum, a choice,
have surely illegally steered Britain away from that constitution.
The issue we face is not how to exit the EU within the constitution.
The issue is that no parliament nor the monarchy ever had any right or power to override that constitution in the first place. That basic wrong MUST be made right. Our forced entry into the EU, the signing of the Lisbon Treaty, it's ratification by the Queen were all acts against the established British constitution. Should never have happened. So yes JBR is correct. There very much should be court cases held and those responsible for using governmental power to compromise Britain's constitution should be held to account.
My good fellow here Pumicestone said "what next, drawing and quartering?"
The point is moot, because Tony Blair and the Queen signed the Crime and Disorder Act, 1998, which secretly abolished much of the crime of treason and reduced the penalty to life imprisonment instead of hanging by the neck until dead.
Indeed? Your govt did not put any serious change to the relationship with the EU or its influence to the people.
Most other countries did.
Ireland did and got changes suitable to their own constitution.
Your elected Parliament nodded it through.
Why didn't it ask the people?
Forced entry into the EU? The Treaty was ratified in 1972 by Denmark, Ireland and the UK. Norway had a referendum and rejected it.
I don't think the UK had such a referendum tho it could have..chances are it would have approved the accession.
It was approved by BRITISH CONSTITUTIONAL CUSTOM to allow the House and Lords to speak for the people.
That was a long held precedent and one which still is observed in the UK's leaving.
There was opportunity for the country to voice opinion about the Lisbon Treaty too.the govt used Parliamentary constitutional precedence to nod that through too.
THe govt has used constitutional precedence to control th e UK's relationship with the EU. It cannot now suddenly forget that and change the balance of power.
If you want to shout democracy perhaps you should have demanded it earlier.
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