09-08-2014, 07:19 PM
51
Re: Death Penalty
Originally Posted by Pumicestone
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A hard-working family man with not so much as a parking ticket, often, in his job, provides valuable and voluntary assistance to police.He lives in a small rural community and has four children.
He discovers that his wife is having it off with the guy down the road.
By arrangement, he meets with the guy on several occasions to tell him to back-off.
He thinks all is resolved - but then springs them "at it" again, grabs a (legally-owned) shotgun and blows the guy away.
OK, he certainly should not have done that. However, he is not well educated and he is certainly no 'career criminal'.
Convicted of murder, he gets 'life' but serves 11 years.
"Life should mean life"? "An eye for an eye" ?
Some years later, he meets a very close female member of my family and marries her.
For the next forty years he supports her through thick and thin, commits not the slightest offence and becomes a very, very valued (tax-paying) member of the local community.
He receives awards for volunteer service and contributes substantial funds to various causes.
He is liked and respected by all.
Should he still be in jail ... or should he have been executed ?
I think that would be classed as a 'crime passionnel' in France and could have been treated with leniency.I think each crime should be treated as an individual case.
I don't believe in 'an eye for an eye' or very much at all that comes from the bible.
09-08-2014, 07:41 PM
52
Re: Death Penalty
Well I'm no biblical scholar but there seems to be a conflict between the "Old" Testament and the "New" about this.The 'Old' is crystal clear about the right fate for 'adulterers'.
The 'New" ... not so clear - "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
I know, I know. Christians and their 'New Covenant' or some such.
But the Big Fella IS alleged to have said that he came not to destroy the (old) law but to fulfil it
AND that not one 'jot or tittle' of the old law should pass away etc etc.
However, we risk getting into some futile theological debate I suppose.
10-08-2014, 08:57 AM
54
Re: Death Penalty
It is interesting that the idea of revenge is exclusively a human characteristic - no other species possesses that need/desire. Does anybody wonder where it comes from - it isn't a natural instinct and yet we all feel it.Equally killing another for anything other than food and/or recreation (in the case of cats and dolphins) is also exclusively human. We are an odd species and known rather confusingly as the top of the evolutionary ladder - weird huh?
I am opposed to the death penalty on the grounds that two wrongs just don't make a right.
10-08-2014, 09:03 AM
55
Re: Death Penalty
Originally Posted by Baxter8
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It is interesting that the idea of revenge is exclusively a human characteristic - no other species possesses that need/desire. Does anybody wonder where it comes from - it isn't a natural instinct and yet we all feel it. Equally killing another for anything other than food and/or recreation (in the case of cats and dolphins) is also exclusively human. We are an odd species and known rather confusingly as the top of the evolutionary ladder - weird huh?
I am opposed to the death penalty on the grounds that two wrongs just don't make a right.
Really cant equate that line to this discussion, or an eye for an eye - its all about taking out the horrendous criminal from society. Its a matter of not tolerating 'murder' that is a callous, cruel act done purely for pleasure. The act of execution, is 'not' done for 'pleasure' but as a necessity to be rid of the vermin
10-08-2014, 03:26 PM
56
Re: Death Penalty
Originally Posted by Baxter8
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It is interesting that the idea of revenge is exclusively a human characteristic - no other species possesses that need/desire. Does anybody wonder where it comes from - it isn't a natural instinct and yet we all feel it. Equally killing another for anything other than food and/or recreation (in the case of cats and dolphins) is also exclusively human. We are an odd species and known rather confusingly as the top of the evolutionary ladder - weird huh?
Many other animals will kill for territory, sex, food and, apparently just for fun/training/protection. My dogs will kill any small animal/bird which comes into their territory and they never eat them - just leave them as a present for me to deal with.
I think it is less that animals are not like us, and more that we are like animals and share many of the same instincts.
10-08-2014, 05:09 PM
57
Re: Death Penalty
I think serial murderers and the like should face the death penalty. There is nothing to be gained by left rotting in jail, which is hardly a penalty in this day and age. There is also nothing to be gained by allowing these criminals to mix in our society, so they should be humanely executed for everyone's benefit. Some of their victims didn't have the choice of how they died and you can bet it wasn't humanely.
10-08-2014, 10:36 PM
58
Re: Death Penalty
Originally Posted by MickB
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I don't think we can say that other higher animals don't experience feelings of revenge (or something close to it). My dogs certainly seem to. They are very good at holding grudges and "getting their own back" on other dogs.Many other animals will kill for territory, sex, food and, apparently just for fun/training/protection. My dogs will kill any small animal/bird which comes into their territory and they never eat them - just leave them as a present for me to deal with.
I think it is less that animals are not like us, and more that we are like animals and share many of the same instincts.
I think that revenge is a lot less developed in other animals than humans as we contemplate the actions of other humans in detail.
One of my problems with death as a punishment is the way that it is commonly used by those who have what seems to be a complete disregard for the rights of others. For example those who are now stoning women to death for supposed adultery in certain radical religious regimes along with all kinds of torture and cutting off of limbs etc.
If we also see death as a punishment as fair, is the next step torture ? There are already many in this country who see torture as fair punishment for certain crimes.
So can we also live with the fact that some of those who are sentenced to death will not even be guilty. Countless miscarriages of justice have occurred and still occur.
I can see that there are people we all wish were not alive because of what they have done, yet the whole issue is fraught with controversy, the method of killing a person as punishment for example.
11-08-2014, 12:11 AM
59
Re: Death Penalty
Originally Posted by Meg
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I abhor violence of any kind and just can't reconcile myself to the fact that the pro death penally people are saying that it is ok for some members of society to kill but not others 
Where is the logic in that.Ok remove offenders to protect society from further offending and as a form of punishment but to do other than this is in my opinion perverse..
11-08-2014, 01:18 PM
60
Re: Death Penalty
Originally Posted by Anita
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So can we also live with the fact that some of those who are sentenced to death will not even be guilty. Countless miscarriages of justice have occurred and still occur.
That is why I also suggested that perhaps there should be a tariff of evidence so that those for whom the evidence is purely circumstantial or based upon one person's uncorroborated evidence should never be considered for a death penalty whereas those (like the killers of Lee Rigby) who were seen to kill him, were filmed killing him and who boasted of killing him so that there was no possible doubt about their guilt, would be subject to the death penalty.
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