Re: Putin Orders Russian Withdrawal from Syria

I dont despise him BC in fact I could say the opposite ,I admire the man

Re: Putin Orders Russian Withdrawal from Syria

That sounds like a pretty astute analysis Gibbs and fits in with things I heard from foreign correspondents on the radio this morning.

Putin is a clever game player who should never be underestimated.

Re: Putin Orders Russian Withdrawal from Syria

Fair comment Aysa, but he does like invading countries.
For instance Ukraine...

http://freebeacon.com/national-secur...vaded-ukraine/

And he has been propping up the person responsible for causing the worse mass migration the world has ever known.
By that, I mean president Assad of course.

Re: Putin Orders Russian Withdrawal from Syria

H also has another advantage over the West. He is not held back by a conscience and has no regard for Human Rights, whatever that Human Rights means. Nor does he mind collateral damage to innocent victims.

Re: Putin Orders Russian Withdrawal from Syria

Hi

I would merely point out that we are not too shabby ourselves when it comes to invading countries and causing massive civilian casualties.

Iraq anybody?

As for Assad, well he was and still is,the legitimate Government of Syria.

That is why the UN is talking to him.

He had many faults, however Syria was a prosperous secular Country where anyone could practice their own religion.

When it erupted into Civil War, the West could have left well alone.

They didn't, they armed the Rebel Groups, many of them Radical Muslims who wished to turn Syria into a Sharia State.

We decided on regime change.

It is the arming and support for the rebels which has prolonged this war, it should have been long over.

The slaughter was still going on, no end in sight, then Putin stepped in and five months later we have a ceasefire which is mostly holding and peace talks for a political settlement.

Putin has publicly told Assad he must go when the talks are concluded.

You can only negotiate with a Government, not a rag tag bunch of rebel factions who cannot agree what day of the week it is and who all want control.

We have still not learnt, we have done the same in Libya.

I did not like Gadaffi, however Libya is now another disaster.

Islamic Jihadist Groups running riot, ISIS growing and a third of the population has fled.

It is a bit rich to blame Putin when we are just as bad, if not worse.

If we really wanted to stop the slaughter and prevent the massive migration, we should stop arming the rebels, force them to the table and get a political settlement.

We are not doing this, we are continuing to insist Assad goes first, which will only make things worse and prolong the agony.

Putin's option, settlement first and the Assad goes is much better as a humanitarian solution.

Re: Putin Orders Russian Withdrawal from Syria

If my memory serves me well Assad had plenty of opportunity for a peaceful settlement when the street protests started. Instead he chose to crack down on the opposition with imprisonment and torture. By doing this he only fuelled the resistance until they took up arms.

He then made matters worse by indiscriminate bombing, chemical attacks and barrel bombs. No wonder the rebels took up the fight. Add to that Al Qaeda, and IS stoking the flames and matters were bound to get out of hand.

Yet still had he taken the initiative he could have found a solution, the problem was his determination not to lose face. The Russians were content to restrict their involvement to supplying arms, until it looked like Assad was going to lose, which posed a possible risk to their bases and access to a warm water port.

It is said that Assad still maintains he will win back all the land he has lost. I believe they will try to keep him in power because he is their man. Their withdrawal is just a bit of blackmail to make him more compliant. If you don't do what we want we will leave you to it, so to speak

Re: Putin Orders Russian Withdrawal from Syria

Hi

We have different views on this obviously.

Why should a legitimate Government stand down in the face of unrest by protesters seeking to overthrow it?

Protesters financed and encouraged by foreign powers.

Protesters who are Sunnis who wanted to destroy a prosperous secular nation and replace it with one where Shias and Christians and Alawites would have been fighting for their survival.

The Arab Spring, touted as the reason for all these uprisings was not a spontaneous uprising throughout the Arab World, it was carefully crafted by the West to impose Democracy on Countries who had not had it.

It was and still is a disaster of the first order.

Heavily backed by the CIA, funded by the Saudis, it was twofold, stop Russia gaining influence and expand the Sunni Muslim influence at the expense of Iran and the Shia Muslims.

At the time it all kicked off Iran was the big enemy, how things have changed.

Your views are just as valid as mine, this is just my take on it.

Re: Putin Orders Russian Withdrawal from Syria

I would think when a government starts to treat its citizens of any religious persuasion the way Assad treated his, then they lose any legitimacy they may be entitled to.

I wasn't trying to absolve the West of any blame But the biggest share must lie with Assad because of the way he treated his people when the Syrian people began peaceful protests and he unleashed his soldiers on them. This after making promises to reform the country, which he had intention of keeping.

My view of the West is perhaps not quite so cynical as yours and whilst I do not believe we are to blame we were not entirely blameless. Obama was slow off the mark and the ridiculous red lines which he quickly stepped back from when his bluff was called was one of the biggest mistakes.

When the whole thing blew up for a long time the West did nothing. Only after constant begging and pleading from the rebels did they finally condescend to supply some small arms and cash, certainly not enough to take on Assad's tanks and helicopters.

Up until the outbreak of the violence the various religious factions had managed to rub along quite peacefully