Referendum related posts from the Joe Cox thread.

That'll push the 'Stay' vote over the line don't you reckon?

Re: Referendum related posts from the Joe Cox thread.

Any surge in ultra-Nationalism, as at the moment, always gives traction to nutters who love violence. We have seen it before but we never learn and always deny it when it rears it's ugly head, using false patriotism as the excuse. From British Union of Fascists to BNP and UKIP, they always claim to be patriots, and always incite violence.

I am English and a European. A matter of birth, education and practicality. In my long life I have seen war, revolution, and social cohesion and only the last had a beneficial effect on my life and my country as a whole. Now I see a breaking up of the society we built, austerity for many and obscene wealth for a greedy and vicious elite. These last are home grown, not imposed by the EU.

People vote for MEPs who are vocally enemies of the EU and spend their time in office free-loading and undermining any proposals whether improving or not, then complain that the EU is inefficient. A wierd kind of patriotism. I look at the people who urgeing Brexit and those who want us to remain and I fear for my country. I'm not talking politicians here but multi-national predators who are licking their lips at the prospect of even greater access to our markets, without the restrictions and controls set by our partnership in the EU, where we, at least, have a vote. Out of the EU we'll get what we're given and, personally, I wouldn't trust a Tory government to ensure anything I buy is safe to use, if they were getting back-handers from the importers. Would you?

I don't expect my opinion to carry any weight, but I have opinions and have always expressed them, as is my right in a free country. Which is what we are. A free country in cooperation with other free countries, within the European Union, which has kept Europe free from conflict for a longer period than ever in our history.

Re: Referendum related posts from the Joe Cox thread.

...You also seem to be a very bitter person if most of your posts are anything to go by.
What do you think all this bitterness and constant name calling mostly on the part of the left that we see on here day after day achieves. I think it contributes to the pool of hate some people seem to feel for all members of any party they don't support and this leads to extremism .

This thread was supposed to be to inform members of the death of an MP and some reports of what had happened not a soap box for the left !

Re: Referendum related posts from the Joe Cox thread.

Shame again it turns into a political point when it's a post about a death of a young women with children.

Re: Referendum related posts from the Joe Cox thread.

I wondered whether that would be the effect and have been asking the question but until you no one has bothered to express an opinion.

Re: Referendum related posts from the Joe Cox thread.

I did Bruce when you posed the question in another thread...

http://www.over50sforum.com/showthre...069#post929069

Re: Referendum related posts from the Joe Cox thread.

For anyone interested in Jo Cox's last article on the EU campaign:
'"With many voters still making up their minds about a decision that will shape the future of our country, Oxford University's Migration Observatory offered a stark warning that despite offering the world, the Leave campaign cannot guarantee what would happen to migration if we left.

Most voters recognise that our country has reaped many benefits from immigration, from the brilliant doctors in our NHS to the skilled workers helping our economy to grow. Yet across the country, people face everyday worries about job security, school places and GP appointments. In the last days of the campaign, voters should know that despite these legitimate concerns, Brexit is not the answer. Here's why:

First, Brexit doesn't guarantee that migration will come down. In fact, a more liberal approach to non-EU immigration – as advocated by the Leave camp – could actually see it increase.

Australia – whose points-based system is so admired by Outers – has twice as many migrants per person than we do.

The whole purpose of their system is to allow businesses to control who comes into their country. For us, this would lead to an increase in cheap labour, bringing down wages and doing nothing to ease voter concerns about insecure employment.

Voters also need to know that the free movement of EU citizens to Britain will not automatically stop if we left.

The only way to do that is to leave the single market – an act of economic self-destruction that would be catastrophic for businesses and jobs across the country.

Second, we can do far more to deal with the pressures caused by migration from inside the EU.

Labour has long pushed for an end to the payment of benefits to people who don't live permanently in this country, and for a major extension of the time EU migrants have to wait before being able to claim benefits – a commitment secured by the Prime Minister as part of the renegotiation deal.

We can also help communities facing the greatest pressure from migration.

Since 2001, EU migrants have contributed £20 billion more to our economy than they've taken out in benefits.

This money must go quickly to areas where migrants are living, to fund schools and health services.

This will ensure that people come to this country knowing they need to play by the rules and work hard, and will reassure Britons that we have a fair, under-control system that works for everyone.

And finally, the overall benefits of EU membership are massive. From businesses in Yorkshire to the President of the United States – and pretty much everyone in between – there is an unprecedented consensus that leaving the EU would hurt our economy and hit our pockets.

We cannot allow voters to fall for the spin that a vote to Leave is the only way to deal with concerns about immigration. We can do far more to address both the level and impact of immigration while remaining in the EU.

I very rarely agree with the Prime Minister, but on this he's right: we are stronger, safer and better-off in."

Re: Referendum related posts from the Joe Cox thread.

Thank you moreover it is nice to read a different view for a change.

Re: Referendum related posts from the Joe Cox thread.

Really, I find it quite nauseating how some of the 'remain' supporters are using this thread and the death of an MP as something to be used in the referendum campaign.

There are other threads for discussing the referendum ..

Re: Referendum related posts from the Joe Cox thread.

Tragic though the death of Joe Cox was I disagree with her views as posted by Moreover, on the whether we should stay or go. Even though she was so viciously killed, that doesn't give her views any more weight now than they had before

I have C&P the main parts below because I seem to have difficulty with the quote button

For anyone interested in Jo Cox's last article on the EU campaign:
'"With many voters still making up their minds about a decision that will shape the future of our country, Oxford University's Migration Observatory offered a stark warning that despite offering the world, the Leave campaign cannot guarantee what would happen to migration if we left.


Most voters recognise that our country has reaped many benefits from immigration, from the brilliant doctors in our NHS to the skilled workers helping our economy to grow. Yet across the country, people face everyday worries about job security, school places and GP appointments. In the last days of the campaign, voters should know that despite these legitimate concerns, Brexit is not the answer. Here's why:

First, Brexit doesn't guarantee that migration will come down. In fact, a more liberal approach to non-EU immigration – as advocated by the Leave camp – could actually see it increase.
Neither can the remain campaign guarantee to reduce it the government has tried. The Leave camp do not advocate a more liberal campaign but the opposite


Australia – whose points-based system is so admired by Outers – has twice as many migrants per person than we do.
They do but that is because they can control immigration and select the ones they want. Being a growing country they are bound to want to take in more, especially if they are the right people

The whole purpose of their system is to allow businesses to control who comes into their country. For us, this would lead to an increase in cheap labour, bringing down wages and doing nothing to ease voter concerns about insecure employment.

You cannot have it both ways. since it is businesses which provide the wealth this country requires surely they need to be able to choose the people they need. Either immigrants are benefit to the country or they are not. If business needs immigrant then they need to be controlled, (which is what Leave advocate), in order to prevent wages being eroded,.

Voters also need to know that the free movement of EU citizens to Britain will not automatically stop if we left.
The only way to do that is to leave the single market – an act of economic self-destruction that would be catastrophic for businesses and jobs across the country.


If we control our own borders it will stop because we will no longer be a member of the EU We would also still business with the single market because it is in their interests to do so, even if it meant small tariffs. So not quite as catastrophic as people imagine


Second, we can do far more to deal with the pressures caused by migration from inside the EU.

Labour has long pushed for an end to the payment of benefits to people who don't live permanently in this country, and for a major extension of the time EU migrants have to wait before being able to claim benefits – a commitment secured by the Prime Minister as part of the renegotiation deal.

We can also help communities facing the greatest pressure from migration. Why have they constantly apposed David Cameron's proposals for restricting benefits for immigants?
If this is the case why were Labour unable to change the EU mindset on immigration in all the years they were in power? Answer, because they condoned it.

Since 2001, EU migrants have contributed £20 billion more to our economy than they've taken out in benefits.
This money must go quickly to areas where migrants are living, to fund schools and health services.

This will ensure that people come to this country knowing they need to play by the rules and work hard, and will reassure Britons that we have a fair, under-control system that works for everyone.


These figures are disputed and inaccurate and one of the governments exaggerations.


And finally, the overall benefits of EU membership are massive. From businesses in Yorkshire to the President of the United States – and pretty much everyone in between – there is an unprecedented consensus that leaving the EU would hurt our economy and hit our pockets.


Again, There are just as many so called experts say otherwise and anyway they have yet to be right about anything.

We cannot allow voters to fall for the spin that a vote to Leave is the only way to deal with concerns about immigration. We can do far more to address both the level and impact of immigration while remaining in the EU.

I very rarely agree with the Prime Minister, but on this he's right: we are stronger, safer and better-off in."