07-04-2020, 11:32 PM
181
Re: China Must get It's Come-uppance?
Originally Posted by Bread
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Maybe Diane Abbot is doing the figures ,?
08-04-2020, 08:41 AM
182
Re: China Must get It's Come-uppance?
Originally Posted by The Artful Todger
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China has one unified common time but what I wrote was that China covers five timezones which it does.But more than that let's examine quality and start by asking just what is a quality product. I have my idea, how 'bout you?
08-04-2020, 09:26 AM
183
Re: China Must get It's Come-uppance?
My Mark 1 Penn 525 fishing reels are all built in the USA. The newer ones, the 525 Mk2 and 5235 Mk3 are all built in China and they are all crap.The Mark 1's are selling second hand on ebay for higher prices than the later Chinese versions.
08-04-2020, 09:53 AM
184
Re: China Must get It's Come-uppance?
But what IS quality? Think about it. How would you define quality? You've given example of possible quality failures but what is quality?I suggest quality is compliance with requirements. If I wanted some wood screws then if I was prepared to accept a fairly high failure rate because of slot failure and would never want to remove them and at a cheap as chips then things that exceeded my technical requirements but cost considerably more would be low quality because they did not meet all of my requirements.
Same with a fishing reel. If I wanted a thing that helped torture fish (I loath so called sport fishing) and was quite prepared to update every year or so then the Chinese product at a cost much less than something that would run smooth as silk and last for years would be higher quality.
The gotcha arises when the manufacturer of the reel sells it at a price for which the buyer expects the same spec and mission life he expected at which point it becomes lower quality
Hence my claim that "quality" is subjective depending as it does on how it meets requirements.
08-04-2020, 10:49 AM
185
Re: China Must get It's Come-uppance?
Originally Posted by The Artful Todger
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But what IS quality? Think about it. How would you define quality? You've given example of possible quality failures but what is quality?I suggest quality is compliance with requirements. If I wanted some wood screws then if I was prepared to accept a fairly high failure rate because of slot failure and would never want to remove them and at a cheap as chips then things that exceeded my technical requirements but cost considerably more would be low quality because they did not meet all of my requirements.
Same with a fishing reel. If I wanted a thing that helped torture fish (I loath so called sport fishing) and was quite prepared to update every year or so then the Chinese product at a cost much less than something that would run smooth as silk and last for years would be higher quality.
The gotcha arises when the manufacturer of the reel sells it at a price for which the buyer expects the same spec and mission life he expected at which point it becomes lower quality
Hence my claim that "quality" is subjective depending as it does on how it meets requirements.
So, back to quality.
There a many aspects to quality and you need all of them to design, develop, manufacture, sell, support and maintain a product. On one hand, quality is subjective by the average consumer because they have their own expectation (usually based on value for money) but for regulators, quality managers, compliance consultants etc, quality is more of a measure of how closely a product has followed the manufacturers approved quality management system. That quality management system (including procedures for generating requirements, deriving a products design, tests to demonstrate repeatability, reliablity and predictability etc etc) must be inclusive of all regulatory requirements and incorporate best practise across the board. Training and audits allow for the quality environment to be assessed and improvements, corrections made from there, but in general "Quality" is really more to do with business performance that delivers robust products than a personal opinion on whether something is crap or not. This is why it is best practise to audit a potential manufacturer to assess their quality management systems before allowing them to make anything for you.
Thats basically it in a nut-shell (form someone who is a lead auditor, regulatory compliance consultant, pharmaceutical and medical device quality manager, IT project manager, business analysts and an ex-software engineer blah blah blah).
Sorry for the long winded response ....
08-04-2020, 11:08 AM
186
Re: China Must get It's Come-uppance?
Originally Posted by keezoy
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First point yes I agree. Second - Well just a couple of examples. Simple wood screws. Every lot I've bought lately are crap. They either snap off or burr easily. And nails. Bend easily. All bought from the local Huge hardware chain, Bunnings. You probably have one similar. Everything from China and hit and miss whether it's any good. I bought a pair of garden shears only last year. They are already buggered with minimal use. But I have tools made in the UK, USA, Australia and Germany that I have had for 40 years. Beautifully made with fine steel. Made to last. I have a set of chisels that were made in the USA over 100 years ago. AMF I think. I have German and Australian made electronic and HIFI equipment that is till going strong after 50 years Still great. I have a vintage Marshall guitar amplifier. God knows how old that is. Still brilliant.I think a quality product is simply one that is engineered skillfully by people that know what they are doing and in turn made with quality materials. Steel that is pure and strong. Timber that is joined and glued properly. Instruments that made with pride and good quality control. You may pay more but you get value for your money. Can't think of any way to say it Todge.
If you don't want to be doing a job twice, buy well made tools and materials....
Cheap Chinese products are aimed at the people who don't know the difference....
08-04-2020, 11:14 AM
187
Re: China Must get It's Come-uppance?
Originally Posted by The Artful Todger
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But what IS quality? Think about it. How would you define quality? You've given example of possible quality failures but what is quality?I suggest quality is compliance with requirements. If I wanted some wood screws then if I was prepared to accept a fairly high failure rate because of slot failure and would never want to remove them and at a cheap as chips then things that exceeded my technical requirements but cost considerably more would be low quality because they did not meet all of my requirements.
Same with a fishing reel. If I wanted a thing that helped torture fish (I loath so called sport fishing) and was quite prepared to update every year or so then the Chinese product at a cost much less than something that would run smooth as silk and last for years would be higher quality.
The gotcha arises when the manufacturer of the reel sells it at a price for which the buyer expects the same spec and mission life he expected at which point it becomes lower quality
Hence my claim that "quality" is subjective depending as it does on how it meets requirements.
Just to pick up on what you just wrote about wood screws Todgy?
If you were using wood screws on a continueous basis in your
proffession you would not ever accept that 50% of your screws
failed in some way as it would slow down your production too
much and you would go out of business?
In other words the screws were not fit for purpose?
I think that is the main criteria for quality?
Donkeyman! 🤔🤔🤔
08-04-2020, 11:44 AM
188
Re: China Must get It's Come-uppance?
Originally Posted by Donkeyman
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Just to pick up on what you just wrote about wood screws Todgy?If you were using wood screws on a continueous basis in your
proffession you would not ever accept that 50% of your screws
failed in some way as it would slow down your production too
much and you would go out of business?
In other words the screws were not fit for purpose?
I think that is the main criteria for quality?
Donkeyman! 🤔🤔🤔
08-04-2020, 12:26 PM
189
Re: China Must get It's Come-uppance?
Nice to see the celebrations in Wuhan as they end their lock-down with parties, live music and lighting up buildings, while outside the communist bubble of China, thousands and thousands of people die from the pandemic they caused.I'm sure the socialists will see this as another victory for their ideology.
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